First look at MontBellB Frostline!

Nicholas,

Great job on the review; thank you!

The weight of this jacket really puzzles me. It appears to me as if they took the Mont bell Alpine Down jacket and added a removable hood that is the same design as the one used on the Mont bell Permafrost. That is worthwhile addition in my view but why did the weight go up more than was necessary? The Mont bell Alpine was also box baffled and contained 6 oz. of 800 fill down. The size medium weighed 16 oz. The new Frost Line hood weighs 3.5 oz. and so I can understand a total weight of just over 19.5 oz. but the Frost Line weighs 25 oz. What modifications accounted for the extra 5.5 oz. weight?

For the same weight as the new Frost Line, their old Permafrost jacket contains 3.3 oz. more down fill, has the same hood, and a welded Windstopper shell.

Think I will have to have one of those, especially at $200.

Thanks Richard (your posts are always a pleasure),

I, as well as you, am perplexed as to where the extra weight has come from. We can attribute, at most, ~14g to the removable hood's zip/snaps. And then maybe another ~14g for the hem/other cinches = a total of 1oz additional weight. Where the extra ~4.5oz comes from, only time will tell…

I truly am hoping that the down fill specs are understated – as it looks to be about the same loft when compared to the Alpine Down Jkt. Otherwise, I can't really think of anywhere else that would account for the added weight.

Truly wish I was affiliated w/MB and could get you a Frostline to dissect for the greater community good.

Caveat: MB's specs are often off, esp. w/ new products… hope that this anomaly will soon be sorted, as this parka looks to be a winner in my book despite the discrepancies in specs.

My Alpine from 2 years ago is not box baffled

Brett,

For the last two years Mont bell made both an Alpine Down that was box baffled with 6 oz of down and a Alpine Light Down that was sewn-through with 4 oz of down. The Alpine Down model was dropped for this year but a number of sites still have them for sale.

http://www.acmeclimbing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1969 is a description of the Mont bell Alpine Down jacket that had been offered for the prior two years but was dropped from their product line this year.

Okay, I guess mine is but I took the 'box' part of that to be more literal like the ones on my Inner Down. I really don't consider it to be 'box' if I can move the down on the back from the right side to the left.

Brett-

It seems that you may have got box baffled and sewn through misunderstood.

Boxed lets the down fully loft and is much less prone to cold spots. It also lets you shift the down, as in a good baffled sleeping bag.

Sewn-through (eg your Inner Down) doesn't allow the down to migrate, nor often fully loft. It also creates cold spots where the jacket is stitched through.

And baffled costs more to manufacture than sewn through.

Thus, sewn through is not as warm as baffled for a comparably filled garment.

Hope this clears things up.

I have needs, and I needs one of those.
Thanks Nicholas. You know you're costing my money don't you?

Thanks for the review! It is a nice addition to the Montbell line. I would be more excited if the weight was more like 19 or 20 ounces.

You mentioned the Rab Neutrino and I did some poking around on their site and saw the new Infinity Jacket Rab Infinity
Did you get a chance to check this one out? 7.4 ounces of down in an 18oz jacket is a better package for backpacking.

Ryan

@ Ryan –

Yeah, I did briefly check the new Rab Infinity and the also the new Westcomb Kokanee Hoody, which are both at ProLite Gear. They are both sewn-through but very, very nicely constructed, minimalist pieces of down kit. Excellent looking parkas upon a once-over. But I don’t believe they are apples to apples compared to the Frostline due to the Frostline’s baffled construction and adjustable cuffs/hood/hems. Though, w/out tags and stuffsack, the medium Frostline should be right about 24oz – not too shabby for what it is IMO.

The specs are not out yet for the Kokanee Hoody (at least from Westcomb) but I am looking forward to going back and taking some photos and specs of both the Infinity and Kokanee to share w/the community. Hopefully I’ll have time later next week.

FWIW, the Kokanee looks like an overfilled/ hooded version of the Chilko Down Sweater recently reviewed here
Made in Canada too, which is always nice.

looks pretty freaking awesome to me

I am confused about baffling. As I read the recent BPL articles on down jackets, based on Richard's research, the clear impression is that loft does not matter nearly as much as quantity of down. Previously, I had always assumed, like most everyone else, that down needed to loft fully. Why does baffling matter if it doesn't make the jacket warmer?

I weighed it on ProLite's scale at 25oz w/ tags and included stuffsack.

Could the extra weight be the stuff sack and tags ?

Michael,

I measured that baffling adds about 5%, on average, to the total thermal insulation of a jacket designed for three season mountain backpacking. I then used a caliper to measure the average seam area where the down was outside the 2.5x critical compression realm. It averaged 6mm in a 120mm average baffle. This is 5% of the jacket's surface area and explains the average thermal insulation difference. You can more than offset the seam losses by wearing a wind shirt or hard shell over a down jacket with sewn through seams.

@ Cameron
"Could the extra weight be the stuff sack and tags ?"

As stated earlier, the tags and stuffsack shouldn't be any more than a combined ounce – bringing the MED weight to ~24oz.

Another thought I had was regarding the length of the jacket, which is stated on MB's site as 30.3" for a MED. Not sure if this is any longer than the discontinued Alpine Down jacket. If it is, then that could be where the rest of the *unaccounted for* weight is coming from. W/out a side by side comparison though, we may never know : )

Irregardless, I'll be getting one of these, cause it'll be cold here soon and my MB Exlite won't be cutting it too much longer.

picked up a kokanee on sale yesterday

thoughts
– the thing is puffay!!! … i dont know how much down is inside but its quite a bit more than the chilko … you wont fit it under a shell
– sizing runs a bit large … with a medium chilko … i could wear base+medium wool hoodie+medium hooded softshell under with no issues
– hood can fit a helmet under
– two way zipper … made for use with harness
– shell is light … i believe its 15 denier … it looks a lot like a montbell actually … also suspect it might be somewhat fragile

short version is that it looks like it's made for layering over everything else as a belay style jacket for stops …

dont use on the move in the rough (fragile) or under a shell (wont fit)

is it worth 350$ … not IMO (course i didnt pay that much … lol)

for the budget conscious ULer … montbell and EB FA would be more value packed choices

do i look like a cool yuppie now … absolutely !!!

Eric,

Thanks for the update; it would be nice to get a full review that includes your measured jacket weight (smile).

that'll have to wait till i find my scale … lol

as an aside if anyone wants a frostline bent gate as a sale … and with the 15% off coupon colin posted … rockandice2010

it comes to 140$ for frostline parka … thats a price that cant be beat … why am i soooo broke . why why why … lol

http://www.bentgate.com/frostline.html

almost everything else montbell is on sale …

I would love to buy Rab Neutrino Endurance, but $280 is beyond my budget. What do you suggest within $200 ?
What about MontBell Frostline Parka – Mens ? I don't see much reviews about this jacket on web. Initally was planning to go for Patagonia Down Sweater hoody, but started looking at MontBell Alpine Light Down Parka. I am confused now.
Pls suggest a good down jacket which will be mainly used for trekking in Himalayas.
Thanks in advance!

Cheers!