$7 to ship a 1.43 ounce item

holy cow.

They must be in business to make profit.

I buy my duct tape in large rolls. Then I wind about 3 feet onto a slender plastic rod (from a Q-tip). On a short trip, I will carry about one with me. On a long trip, I might carry 3 or 4 of them.

–B.G.–

That's your complaint, really? You can stop at your local hardware store and buy 20+ yards of the same width for $4.

The rolls sold here aren't even wrapped around a tube, just duct tape fold over itself to create a starter loop. While yes, $7 is ridiculous shipping, buy them in the first place is ridiculous when it's so easy/cheap/faster to make your own.

Nevermind. Now that I think about it, they're pricing is pretty comparable to most online retailers, only difference is that many online retailers don't sell niche items as some of the items of gear found in the BPL store. Surely, it makes life easier on their end in Bozeman to just have a few flat shipping rates, instead of fiddling around with weighing items for postage, bubble wrap envelopes, boxes, bags, etc.

I'm all for BPL doing what makes the most sense and is the most convenient for them. They're a business, after all, and that's completely their choice. The consequence, however, is that the items – because most are so light – often end up costing more than they do at the local gear shops like REI. Personally, I'd rather give my money to BPL and support the community here, but I'm not going to pay a premium to do it. Both REI and BPL are businesses – neither is a non-profit or charity. BPL used to do USPS actual shipping and tossing items in the shopping cart was much easier. Now it seems pretty rare for me at least. A number of items in the store cost more to ship than the items themselves.

Purchasing from BPL (and online retailers in general) is best done in bulk. Buying three or four items will typically have the same shipping cost as one item. Our shipping costs (as determined by the USPS) are based on pounds, not ounces.

"Our shipping costs (as determined by the USPS) are based on pounds, not ounces."

There are times when a heapin' helpin' of irony just brings a broad smile to one's face. This would be one of those times…. ;-)

"Our shipping costs (as determined by the USPS) are based on pounds, not ounces."

Why?

I followed the suggestion of bundling that someone made in this thread.

While I waited for another item to become in stock (and it finally is), the duct tape is now out of stock. If the shipping prices charged were closer to what the shipping companies and USPS charge, or even it was as high as $3.50 apiece for these 1-2 ounce items (which is still way more than they charge), at this point I'd have bought both items, paid the $7 in shipping, and backpackinglight would have had two sales and a happy customer. Instead, backpackinglight has no sales, and the customer did not have a positive experience.

This is not so much about the money. The image that backpackinglight produces when it charges $7 to ship a 1 ounce item is not consistent with the ethos that permeates the rest of the site.

I would like to buy some of the air core cord thats on sale, for $12.91, that weighs less than one ounce for the entire spool. however, with shipping, it will be $20.16.

i get the flat rate shipping thing, but that is ridiculous. it would cost under a dollar in actual shipping costs for first class USPS

That same roll would cost in shipping, on a slow boat to Australia… needless to say, ive only come as far as the checkout stage with a few things before i gave up… surely some sale is better than none? perhaps the profits are too small either way?

A combination of the shipping software we use to process and ship orders from the Gear Shop as well as our need to track those packages limits us to using USPS Priority Mail, USPS Priority International, USPS Express International, and Fedex Ground and Fedex Express. The rates charged by these services are based on package weight in pounds so a one ounce item costs the same to ship as a one pound package.

Lets put this into perspective. I found the exact same item online at REI (the tape).

BPL cost of item = $3.99
BPL member cost of item = $3.89

REI cost of same item = $4.00
REI member cost of same item ~ $3.60 (after dividend)

BPL Shipping $7.00
REI Shipping $5.99

Total cost:

BPL $10.99
BPL member $10.89

REI $9.99
REM member $9.39

So you can save about $1 or a little more (if you are a member) from REI.

BPL ships most items via Priority mail. I do not know what REI uses. This is the simplest shipping method for a small business to use with an online shopping cart. These are flat rates depending upon what packaging the item fits into. The cheapest rate is a padded envelope at $4.95. Boxes run higher based on size. So in this example, if BPL uses the envelope, they are going to charge you a little under $2 for someone to print the pick ticket, print shipping and postage labels, pick the item, and package the item. If they use one of the flat rate boxes, postage goes up and they charge less money for the handling aspect. Not a lot of money.

These are all the things that go into running a business. By the way, with priortiy mail most people in the US are going to get their item from BPL in 2 days, I have actually gotten things from them in ONE day with the standard shipping… and that is shipping from Montana to California. BPL is selling for about the same price as REI. BPL has costs to run the online store, electricty and utilities for their facility, cost of the computer and printer, cost of printer paper or labels, ink or toner for the printer, rent, taxes, licenses, salary & benefits, insurance, etc, etc. BPL operating cost per item sold is probably much higher than REI's.

Now REI has greater buying power than BPL (lower cost) and they pay less for UPS or FedEx shipping than BPL (volume discounts for REI). USPS cost is the same for either company. It also costs REI less money for handling and packaging costs, due to economies of scale. So overall not a bad deal in this example of BPL vs REI = $1.

Other than some speciality items that are only available from BPL, most stuff is going to cost a little more from BPL. For me the little extra is acceptable, because it helps keep them in business.

Sam, et al…

Here is your "Voice of the Customer." Many BPL's wait for an out of stock item to become available to save shipping, then the original item goes out of stock. This has happened to me a few times. Also, your customers are telling you the shipping is too high. (Whether or not BPL cares to address it is a business decision… but it is going to cost a little extra to set up more shipping options and I would not change it unless you determine it is contributing to a large number of lost sales). I have tried several times to buy from BPL first, even if the cost is a little higher, but the above example has caused me to use a competitor.

I will state that when BPL has something in stock, the service has been extraoridnary.

So anyway, I hope this is a useful dialogue. I think it is unfair to chastise BPL about shipping unless we look closely at all the facts.

It always interests me when businesses charge an online handling fee, either explicit (Eddie Bauer) or implicit in shipping fees higher than actual. I agree it takes work to print the ticket, pick the stock, package in the USPS or Fedex supplied box and then post it. (actually possibly not post as I think USPS and Fedex will pick up for these.)

However, I wonder what peoples reaction would be if they went into their local outfitter and bought a roll of duct tape and were told,'Yep, that's $3.99 thanks, plus $2.11 for the staff member to take it out of the box, put it neatly on the shelf, sweep out the store before we open, make sure no one steals it, helps explain to you how to use it, checks that we don't have a blue one in stock, offers you the option of the red one over there, but no, at the same price even though it's not your first choice in colour, and then rings up your purchase and puts in a nice paper carry bag for you without being allowed to play whatever music they want at their self selected volume.'

Hard to see a lot of difference in the costs of doing business.

"Hard to see a lot of difference in the costs of doing business."

Agree. Of course, all businesses work these costs in somewhere. To me it comes down to perception (as does everything in my world). I'll bet it would be a different dialog on this issue if the price of the item was a dollar more and the price of shipping a dollar less, or something like that.

Value, of course, is seen by differently by different people. I can pay $5 for an item and $2 shipping and be happy, but think I'm getting ripped off if I pay $3.50 for the same item with $3.50 shipping. It's a balancing act, to be sure. There is, obviously, no one right answer. But certainly, some are better than others….. ;-)

And, as I've said before, some good proactive communication can go a very long way in diminishing customer/member disatisfaction. Unfortunately, from my viewpoint, often that's something BPL isn't very good at.

You can buy the tape at an REI store for only $4.00, but you need to live near one. You cannot buy the tape from a BPL retail store, unless perhaps you live in Bozeman, MT.

Often when I purchase online, I look at the item cost, will there be sales tax, and what is the shipping charge. Total price is what matters, along with service… is the company reputable.

I liken this to gear lists. The selling price is the "base weight" and I can use it as a comparison. But base weight means little to me, it is the total pack weight that is important, as is the total price to my door of the item. Retailers know customers will shop the price first. Interestingly if you are searching for an item on eBay, you can sort them by "lowest price + shipping." Nice touch.

My whole point is that BPL is not excessive compared to similar retailers. The title of the post, "$7 to ship a 1.43 ounce item" just seemed like BPL was taking advantage of their customers. But if one were to use some of the other options for tape that were presented, one could go to True Value and purchase what ammounts to a life time of duct tape for most people for under $8 out-the-door.

I appreciate the thoughtful break-down of the e-commerce shipping system you provided, Nick. Shipping costs are a struggle for me as Gear Shop manager. I want to offer cheaper shipping to my customers – particularly first class shipping internationally – but the up-front costs to make these changes to our e-commerce system are simply too prohibitive just now. It is definitely a goal of mine to to work to work towards bringing the costs of shipping down.

A couple person thoughts on this issue:

I don't expect to pay a handling fee when I walk into a retail store as those costs are already worked into the MSPR of the product and the cost of transporting it has been paid by me personally either in fuel for my automobile or calories consumed to pedal my bicycle. In an online situation there is a bit more work that goes into the customer receiving the item such as the packaging of the item and as a customer myself I am willing to pay a small premium to have an item delivered directly to my doorstep.

I've been doing some reading lately regarding shipping costs and how online businesses can provide work arounds for this. It may be taken as a token gesture but I am running a promo in the gear shop now that provides free shipping when you order $75 or more of product. I'd like to gauge how well that works as well as how it affects our profit margin. Perhaps if these aspects prove positive I can try the promo on a $50 order, $25, etc, etc. Please provide your thoughts and comments.

Sam,

It is a proven method to drive incremental sales if you have enough other stuff in stock. For example if I want a $50 item only, but you sell some consumable stuff like tape, groundsheets, etc. I will purchase $25 of that stuff to get the free shipping.

Thanks for the insight, Nick. Keeping our branded goods in stock will prove difficult for us until we can grow but I am doing my best to keep the "little stuff" from our 3rd party vendors available at all times.

Sam, per your request below —

"Perhaps if these aspects prove positive I can try the promo on a $50 order, $25, etc, etc. Please provide your thoughts and comments."

Two comments:

First, I think the new free shipping promo for $75 orders is fantastically positive, and it's obviously working great for orders of $75 or more since they ship free!

Second, I like the "etc., etc." shipping promo the best, for sure better than the $75 promo, the $50 promo, and the $25 promo.

Oh, for the good ol' days when BPL shipped everything for free! And there wasn't even a membership program back then — everything was just plain ol' free.

But it's great that you're checking into ways to ease the shipping pain. It's not very good for any BPL inventory to go unsold simply because shipping cost in some cases can be as much as triple or quadruple the price of a small, inexpensive item.

"Perhaps if these aspects prove positive I can try the promo on a $50 order, $25, etc, etc. Please provide your thoughts and comments."

Hi Sam,

I think it's a great idea. I don't take it as a token gesture, I simply take it as a gesture, and a good one. Thanks.

+1 to Nick's last post. I always wait until I have $25 worth of stuff to get free shipping from Amazon. The problem for BPL will be keeping enough things in stock so someone can take advantage of the promo! Also like Nick, I've waited for an item to keep back in stock so I can combine purchases only to find the other item was then out of stock. Very annoying!