McHale Packs — Observations & Comments

[Nick Gatel]

As I mentioned previously in another thread, I am in the process of getting one of Dan’s packs. I have seen several questions about McHale packs and the process, so I thought I would start chronicling it as I go through it.

My reasoning for considering a McHale pack:

Over the past two years, I have done many multi-day trips with base weights in the 3+ lb – 8lb range using 4 different cottage company packs. Two frame-less and two framed (aluminum stays). Total weight with food and water can be anywhere from 12 lbs to 30+ lbs. When it gets above 20 lbs, it is usually due to the amount of water I need to carry.

On almost every trip, these packs cause some level of discomfort. Be it the shoulder straps on the small packs or the hip belt on the larger ones. It is not constant discomfort, but at some point on every trip all the packs become a little bit of an irritant. So my thought was, is there a “perfect” pack? Or is it necessary to have a selection of packs for varying conditions. If there is a perfect pack, then why not deal with 3 season base weights of 6 lbs – 11 lbs, and always be comfortable and happy?

The other downfall with some of my current light packs is that they are fragile. Light materials and construction are not going to last years and years. And some of them can be easily damaged. I replaced my Murmur this year, due to damage from cross country travel and many ‘errant’ trees and shrubs. This was not the fault of the pack, I just took it places it was not designed to go. To me it is crazy to have a collection of packs and to replace them periodically.

It is almost to the point that these packs dictate where and when I go, instead of meeting the needs of almost any trip I want to take.

So I decided to check out McHale packs. This did not mean I was going to buy one, but I was going to research them. I started out by spending a lot of time on Dan’s Website. This was rather intimidating, and it was not easy to figure out what is what. Dan is a pack builder. He also built the Website, but he will tell you his expertise is packs, not Website development. But after talking to Dan, seeing a pack in person, and reviewing the DVD he sent me, the Website now is easily understandable.

I do want to make one thing absolutely clear. I am not getting this pack to impress anyone. I hike alone most of the time, so there is no one to show it to. And I will more than likely never meet anyone from BPL except for maybe a small handful. Also, a McHale pack is a sizable investment. I really want to emphasize the term investment. At first it was “expensive.” But considering the advice I have already received from Dan (probably two hours on the phone), the fitting process, the materials, and the construction, it is probably the last pack I will ever buy. For me it is an investment, not a purchase.

Since I was unsure of which pack might fit my needs, I skipped the Web order page and just called Dan. Left a voice mail and he called me back within an hour or so. Dan talks to all his customers. Some of the owners of the other cottage manufacturers do not handle all customer calls. But Dan does. He takes his reputation very seriously.

I had read that Dan was a very “opinionated” person. But what I experienced was a very knowledgeable man, not opinionated. I get a sense that he is very proud of every single pack he makes. They are not “things” he sells. He customizes every pack to what the customer needs. He asks a lot of questions to determine these needs. However, he will not build a pack to a lesser specification than his standards require. I like this attitude. His name is one the pack, and he is not willing to make something he feels is sub-standard. He is very willing to lose a sale, than jeopardize his name and reputation of his packs.

So after our first call, it was loosely determined that a LBP with all the trimmings was what I needed. However, he stressed that this determination could only be finalized after I tried out a demo pack. Next step was for me to do all the measurements according to the instructions on the Website, and to mail a deposit for the demo.

After he received my measurements, he called me back and reviewed everything. It is obvious that he is expert at looking at measurements, and he needs many more measurements than just torso length and waist size that other manufacturers use to size a pack. When he looked at all my measurements, he said that I might not have measured my torso accurately… and I think he is correct. At this point, he said that once he received my check (he does not accept credit cards), he would send the demo out right away. I got the demo within a week after mailing the deposit. His demos are not necessarily constructed with the materials the customer wants, because the sizing is the purpose of the demo; and all requested accessories are included. I am going to get quite a few options, all of which I probably won’t use most of the time. But since this will be my last pack, I want everything just in case Dan retires. He also sent me a sample of full Dyneema with a couple of different dye colors.

When the demo is sent out, Dan sends an email with instructions on how to load the pack and take pictures for his review. After he reviews the pictures and talks to the customer, he will either start making the pack, or if the pack does not fit right, send out another demo pack. I think my demo might be ½” – 1” too tall. Not sure, but once he reviews the pictures, he will know. That is what is great about his packs… there are not 3 sizes of frames, your frame will fit you perfectly.

Right now, I think I will be getting:

– LBP in full Dyneema. Apparently Dan is one of the few people who can dye this material. I will get the most inconspicuous color I can. Maybe gray.

– P&G Bayonet System with Bypass harness.

– Two large water bottle pockets. Each can hold 64 oz Gatorade bottles (or smaller).

– Summit flap with bear canister and bladder capabilities, plus zippered pouch.

– Two regular Crest hip belt pockets.

– One shoulder pocket with Velcro flap.

– Kangaroo pocket.

The pack arrived with an instructional DVD. This DVD included a lengthy section on configuring the bayonet system, plus how to do a lot of other stuff. In the DVD it is suggested to turn the pack inside out to really see how the system works (this is not necessary to adjust the bayonet system, he just wants people to see how it is built). So I did that and inspected the construction. Everything is top quality and “bullet proof.” There are so many ways to set-up the pack for specific needs, and the design engineering is quite impressive.

So after spending a couple evenings playing around with the pack, I had to try it out! I removed all the options, except the two water pockets and hip pockets (not sure I wanted them, because hip pockets are usually not very functional for me).

I loaded the pack with 30lbs of stuff, including two 640z bottles in the water pockets (total of 1 gallon), and put a bunch of stuff in the hip pockets. I then went on a 16 mile hike. About 2,000 foot elevation gain in the first 4 miles. Part of the hike was at over 6,000’ elevation along a ridge-line, and then down into the high desert with a trail-less cross country section and a lot of brush. Temperature for most of the hike was in the low 90F range.

This is not a gear review, but some observations.

The purpose of the hike was to evaluate the pack, but to be honest after about 4 miles I completely forgot about the pack and just enjoyed the hike. I really forgot to pay attention to the pack. That is because I have never worn a back that just becomes part of the body. And I have owned many, many brands and types of packs.

The first thing you notice is how comfortable the hip belt is. The belt is tall and not very thick. I don’t know why, but the double buckle set-up makes the belt stay glued to your hips. The belt does not slip or work its way down.

The hip pockets are about 7.5” long and 4.5” tall. You can put a lot of stuff in them. I put some snacks and a P&S camera in one pocket. In the other I placed a small pair of binoculars and a Garmin eTrex (two items I almost never carry). The pockets are very easy to access. A few times I had to reach down to make sure the pockets were still attached, because they never interfered with my hands, like pockets usually do.

I adjusted the straps just to keep the pack from moving around. All the weight was on my hips. Although it was in the 90’s the back did not seem hot against my back. I stopped 4 times on the hike for water breaks, and it seemed that the back of my shirt was just about as damp as the front. To be honest, I did not come to this conclusion until I got home. It was a non-issue on the hike. Once home I inspected by shirt and there was about the same amount of “salt” deposits on the front and pack of the shirt. I was just looking because I couldn’t remember a lot of sweating of discomfort.

The morning after the hike, I had ZERO discomfort on my shoulders or hips, like I normally do. As a matter of fact, I pushed and rubbed both to see if there was any after-affects from the hike. None at all.

Dan is currently on vacation for a month, so I will update everyone with the progress as I move forward. Can’t wait for the final product.

[Lau Chi Man Vincent]

You will not regret to invest a McHale pack.
After i used my first McHale, i invest another two.

[Michael Fogarty]

You've probably gone along the same path as me, from heavy gear back in the day, to light, ultralight, and now somewhere inbetween.

I have a Chasm that I bought for longer type trips, of 7+ days and a LBP36 for short trips of 3-4 days.

What I like with the Chasm is it will hold a Bear canister sideways into the pack, and is what I pack on top last, other than a warm jacket, when needed atop the canister.

I bought a 2nd lid, after I had already bought the Chasm. I got the Hip-pack lid, but without the map pocket, only because I was in a hurry for it, and Dan had some pre-cut and ready to go. It worked great for our summit climbs in the Adirondacks. The water bladder holder attaches to the back of the Hip pack lid and worked great as well.

I carried 42lbs for a 6 day trip with the Chasm and used the bayonets, which I liked using even with this "light" of a load. My LBP36 does not have the Bayonets, but I don't expect to carry more than 30lbs in it either.

[t.darrah]

Edited

[David Ure]

NM

[EndoftheTrail]

Methinks whoever thought Dyneema couldn't be dyed was probably thinking of the white ripstop material (the name escapes me)… Of course, the white ripstop will always remain white, but the rest of the material can be dyed black, blue, green — and heaven forbid, red or purple…

[CW]

Dyneema (or spectra) is the white ripstop grid you see in Dyneema-X. Dyneema-X is a 210d nylon with dyneema (or spectra) reinforcement. Dyneema and spectra are both brand names for high modulus polyethylene.

From the manufacturer: "Dyneema® is white and cannot be dyed, but can be mixed with other textiles for a stippled effect."

It has to be colored during the manufacturing process since it's polyethylene-based.

[David Ure]

NM

[CW]

Then how can Dan dye it?

Magic? Maybe he knows something DSM and Honeywell don't know. That or he's using a woven version combining spectra or dyneema threads with nylon. He could also be using a non-woven version which is essentially what cuben fiber is. In a woven case, the nylon will take color and in a non-woven case the mylar (or other film) will take color.

This would explain the subdued colors.

[David Ure]

NM

[Michael Fogarty]

Possibly by heating the dye, soaking the fabric in dye heated to just the right temp?

[David Ure]

Nm

[CW]

Obviously Dan needs to teach Honeywell and DSM a thing or two about their materials since they don't seem to know what they make.

[David Ure]

nm

[CW]

That too. :-)

I do not profess to be a fabric guru. I just tend to believe the person who makes the material over someone who sews it.

[David Ure]

nm

[Javan Dempsey]

Chris is right, David and I just went round and round about this yesterday.

If you search for the previous post I link to a paper(one of many, just an example) that shows 1) that dyneema/spectra *by default* can NOT be dyed, but that 2) by one of a few processes of polymerization (which bonds other material to the spectra), creates the possibility of dye.

Therefore the reasonable conclusion, is that since McHale obviously does know how to color his spectra/dyneema, it must be made to his specs and polymerized sometime during the manufacturing process of the fabric, which would allow him to use cationic dyes. Even McHale notes on his site that it's a "special dye process".

I think this still falls in the realm of "Magic" :p

Pure dyneema/spectra by default can not be dyed, period. Although I would say that polymerized spectra/dyneema would still be considered "Pure" by our fabric standards, just like silnylon or dwr coated nylon would still be considered "pure" nylon.

[David Ure]

;)

[Nick Gatel]

Seems to me that Dan is not going to tell people how he is doing it, since no one else can :)

I have a piece of his Dyneema. It is white. Part is dyed yellow and part is gray. The color is much lighter on the back side. Maybe it is bonded to the material, and not actually dying the material in the conventional sense.

[David Chenault]

Nick, thanks for taking the time to write this all down. I've never given the McHale site much time because it's so dense and hard to understand. Your words help that a great deal.

Looking forward to updates, and pictures.

[Drowned Lemming]

Painted on?

The 'inside' of mine is a lot lighter than the outside and there are a few scratches where the outer surface is showing white.

[Rakesh Malik]

I think it's painted or something like that. When I was getting mine, he mentioned that the color sometimes flakes off. He also said that it's hard to clean Dyneema packs because most cleaning agents will take the coatings off, so I went with default colors on mine.

My method for figuring out what to get was easier than most… I just went to his workshop and let him do the measuring :)

It sounds like you're enjoying your new pack… I'm sure it will serve you well for a LONG time :)

[Jang-Tian Shieh(Syoten)]

From your guys' description, I believe it is painted. As I'm a worker in textile industry, I think ordering a specified yarn to weave fabric requires huge quantity. However, Mchales doesn't make too many packs.

[James holden]

interesting how more people are turning back towards comfort and durability at the expense of some weight savings … mr mchale predicted this a few years back i believe

[Lau Chi Man Vincent]

Yes, Dan is paint on the dyneema.

The picture below is years ago, i ask Dan try to make a red color.

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