Down Jacket

20% feathers may also mean the "600 fill" down is from young geese, probably Chinese. Eastern European geese are more often raised for their down QUALITY as for the meat. his means a fully mature bird in order to have larger down plumules hence more loft.

The Chinese don't like to feed geese for another several months to a year to allow them to fully mature B/C it's not cost efficient for them in terms of food per gram of meat produced in the slower growing final months to maturity.

Not to mention the fact that feathers (for goodness sake) have nowhere near the resilience or even initial loft of true down plumules. Then there's the extra weight of the feathers over down and feathers sharp quills.

Pass this "bargain" up. Better to get a good synthetic jacket that this excuse for a down jacket.

Remember: "The sweetness of a bargain fades with the bitterness of poor quality." (Ferengi Rule of Acquisition # 207)

If it's a 'throwaway' tee shirt, then who cares… But if you are going to be spending "real money" for something that can last for years — then I agree with Eric and recommend that you go for quality — as your budget allows.

sounds like good advice. Thanks.

Eric, thanks for info on Chinese vs EU down, and how geese are raised. I know a good bit about certain fabrics – silk, cashmere, wool, etc – used to be a designer, but very little about down.

A lot of gear — including down jackets and bags — are made in China this day and age. That doesn't necessarily mean that the down comes from local geese. As with cars, electronics, and most everything else — component materials are sourced from all different places. Chinese labor is still relatively cheap — so components worldwide are often shipped to China for final assembly (esp. if labor intensive). Under the rules of international trade — the "manufacturing" origin is simply the point where final assembly and shipping take place. Doesn't mean a whole lot anymore.

You will likely have to ask directly if you are truly interested in origin — but even then, I wouldn't be surprised if the goose down is sourced from multiple places — even for the same brand/model jacket or bag. For me, I would just shop for brands that are well respected. When in doubt, feel free to ask the folks here.

id buy it if i didnt already have a EB downlight … lol

for $50 ($40 for womens) minus the free shipping and discount coupons you prob wont be paying more than $40

i believe land's ends has their temp ratings independently tested …. if they say its 700 it prob is

sure its not a montbell … but its ~1/3 the price =P

1st choice would still be a EB downlight for the same price if you can find them still … but for less than $50 itll work … and if you dont like it return it

not as warm as an EB or montbell, its not UL, but there are times when you want something that you dont need to baby …

it should still last quite a while and its backed by the best warranty in the business, you can return it for a full refund even after a decade

http://www.landsend.com/pp/SnowPack700DownJacket~212019_-1.html?bcc=y&action=order_more&sku_0=::PZQ&CM_MERCH=IDX_00008__0000000044&origin=index

The Lands’ End guarantee has always been an unconditional one. It reads: “If you’re not satisfied with any item, simply return it to us at any time for an exchange or refund of its purchase price.” We mean every word of it. Whatever. Whenever. Always. But to make sure this is perfectly clear, we’ve decided to simplify it further. Guaranteed. Period.

here a post from mr nisley on this exact jacket

Land’s End publishes the TEMPERATURE RATING: -10° to 15° Fahrenheit. They go on to say this as a comfort range for the type of climate you'll be wearing this SnowPack Jacket in while wearing a typical winter wardrobe. They have a “learn more” link which adds, “The high and low temperatures (Fahrenheit) associated with each rating represent a comfort range you can expect the garment to perform well in. All our ratings are based on wearing typical cool weather clothing, including a cotton turtleneck, wool sweater and jeans.” In a prior print catalog they further explained their rating system by saying, “How do we determine a jacket’s Temperature Rating? Our lab tests the jacket on a “copper man”, modeled after a mannequin originally built by the U.S. Army to develop clothing systems to keep soldiers warm in extreme conditions. Outfitted with wires and sensors, our copper man braves subzero temperatures wearing various Lands’ End jackets and coats, and “reports” back to us about how warm an individual item kept him. From that data, we create a comfort range that makes choosing the right jacket for your needs easier.

Lands End and LL Bean both use the Institute for Environmental Research lab at Kansas State to measure their jacket’s warmth. Their insulation measurements are extremely accurate. The advertising copy says in part COPPER MAN REPORTS BACK TO US (insulation value) – From that data WE CREATE A COMFORT RANGE.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=25685

Eric Chan,
Thanks for the additional info. It's amazing to me that anyone would go to so much trouble to answer a stranger's question.

As to the info itself, it appears that my original question has been answered: the LE is as warm as the Pata or the Marmot.

I'm giving further thought to the questions that were raised regarding quality, in reference to my intended use.

I've bought from LE in the past and have found that they do in practice stand up for their warrantee. Unfortunately, I have also found that I have recently had to use their warrantee, perhaps too often. I don’t know if their QC has slipped or if I’ve simply had bad luck. Have to think on this some more.

A warrantee serves to indicate a company’s commitment to their products, but isn’t much use if the product fails when you’re half way around the world in a country with limited communication. Which is something that has happened to me with other products.

my suggestion would be to call EB and their stores to see if they still have the downlight sweater for ~$50 … those are as warm as the competition

Eric, Who is EB?

eddie bauer … first ascent series … if youre lucky you might find last years model downlight sweater for <$50 still

BPL rates this as a recommended item

thanks I'll have a look. who would have thought? Eddie Bauer sort of opted out of outdoor mkt when they became a mall store, or so I thought.

EB ceased making first rate stuff a long, long time ago. They're trying to make a comeback, but…

Anyway, whichever model you are thinking — it never hurts to post here and ask before you buy.

Quality aside, how important is light weight to you — versus price?

Their first ascent line is as good as my montbell and arxteryx stuff … Not as good as my westcomb though

and yes i own and use all thise brands

bpl does not give out its recommended status lightly … for a big box retailer like eb to get one is impressive

for 50$ if u can find one yr laughing

i

Benjamin,

I've been thinking about that question today, and others. Upon reflection, I realize that I put quality first. I have outdoor gear, and other stuff, that is over twenty years old and still fully functional. In fact, I have handed down much of my gear to my sons and they are still using it. Case in point, my youngest son is this weekend in the Sierra and wearing a down sweater he scrounged from my storage closet that I bought in 1975. It's too small for me now due to my recently acquired portable food storage unit.

In this instance I have realized that I am looking for the most warmth for the least weight and that price is not a major concern, within reason. Last year I bought a Patagonia Down Sweater at their Milan store and was perfectly happy with it. However, it has been acquired by a female family member and so I'm shopping.

I happened to see that LE ad; I'm on their mailing list and so wondered about it. Right now I'm thinking that I'll either get another Pata, or a Marmot Zeus, unless someone here with more experience suggests something better.

Jim

"In this instance I have realized that I am looking for the most warmth for the least weight and that price is not a major concern".

Then I wouldn't look at mainstream brands — which tend to juggle amongst quality, durability, features, fashion, price — and weight too but to a lesser extent.

Look instead at the more specialized brands favored by crazy ultralight hikers — and look for high "fill power" — 800 or even 900. MontBell comes to mind and they make different models to suit different temps. For 35F or so warmth, their down jacket is no heavier than some short sleeve tees!! Compare that with mainstream EB or LE jackets!

Western Mountaineering also makes first rate down jackets — although their product range is narrower.

Now that you've laid out your priorities (weight, quality, price) — tell us the temp. rating you are looking for and I bet folks can recommend specific models for you.

Well, OK.

I hadn't really thought much about temp range as such. My most recent point of reference would be last winter when I was in the Italian and Swiss Alps. I think it got down to a little below 20, maybe 15 at night.

I was wearing the Pata down sweater, a light shell, a thin cashmere sweater and a thin silk t-neck. I was totally comfortable. so, I guess anything in that class would do. Lighter and less bulky would of course be better, although the Pata was pretty small and light.

Oh, one thing. The Pata XL was too tight in the shoulders. The only time I've ever seen a Mont Bell jacket it was a XL and WAY too small. I need a XXL in Pata. No idea about fit in other brands.

I'll let you know how it works. I thought about it and decided it was too good of a deal to miss out on. The mens size medium weights 15 oz. For an occasional hiker that lives 5 hours away from the mountains (I live at the beach) I decided it was good enough for my needs. I'll let you know how it is when I get it!

When Land's End was begun they took great pride in sourcing the best fabrics and other materials and telling you about those sources.

Then Sears bought them all that openness and pride about sourcing materials ended. It still LOOKED like Land's End stuff but the quality went down a notch (or two, in some items). So Sears/K Mart/Land's End are all the same corporation. Big but still a FAR better corporate ethos than Wal Mart. 'Nuff sed.

This is a common story when a much larger firm buys a good smaller company, as with Dana packs, for example.