“Expert” List Needs Fresh Perspective

Here's an alternate perspective. At the weight you're at there's only minimal changes to be made in base weight and they take sacrifices. But skin out weight is another matter. Now that you've gone full SUL expert, food, fuel, and water make up the biggest portion of your pack.

Switch to a wood stove, like the tri-ti or homemade variant and leave the fuel behind. – 3 or 4 oz/day

Use a seychelle filter in gravity mode with your 2 platypi. +3 oz base weight but -2+ lbs after each refill since you don't have to carry water while waiting for the aqua mira, but can tank up at the water source.

Take a tenkara pole. + 6 oz base weight, but – 3-16 oz of food /day depending on your knowledge of the area and confidence that you can catch fish. In the sierra's I carry 1 lb/day of food and assume I can make up the difference with fresh fish. Makes things a lot easier to carry the pack for the 7-14 day trips.

On a week long trip these changes can drop 5+ lbs out of your pack. But equally important for me is that the changes mean I can play with different gear and techniques.

Nia: Thanks for taking the thread into this outside-the-box line of thinking. For extended trips wherein big mileage isn't the focus, the wood stove and Tenkara rod will save weight as well as provide entertainment.

I did a 1200 mile thru-hike in '07 and carried a Bushbuddy. The amount of hassle that saved me was huge. I didn't have to source alcohol fuel, I could brew up anytime I wanted with little to no regard for rationing fuel, and it was just plain fun to have a little fire every day.

The fishing rod is less of a useful item to me and more of a fun item. Most of my backpacking trips are mileage-focused, leaving little time for relaxing and catching fish so I carry the required calories into the woods with me on my back. But, for instance in a couple weeks I have some buddies coming to visit who want to focus more on fishing and less on mileage so the fishing rod and watercolor set will be coming along with me.

There is no perfect gearlist so I rarely look at gearlist postings but since Sam hails (or used to) from my neck of the woods, why not have some fun:-)

Sam: Bivy sack is a warmth/wind protection thing for me.

Sam, you're from Minnesota! … below freezing temps are T-shirt weather All jest aside, sleeping warmth is very much a YMMV thing but add another pair of wool socks to the insulated clothing you pack and replace the wool beanie with a balaclava and you might well be warm sleeping in the mid 20's

I'd tend to agree with others that there are lighter packs that can handle your load.

a ziplock snack bag make a great backcountry wallet

Won't save weight but does it make sense to have a fire striker on a lanyard but not also the tinder you're packing?

Does Ryan's recent article about hand sanitation give you pause about using Purell as a soap substitute? (especially since you are going paperless)

You can take the boy out of Minnesota but you can't take the Minnesota out of the boy? Is that how it goes, Jim? Unfortuntely I inherited being cold all the time from my mom rather than the wearing-shorts-into-November traits that my dad exhibits.

Regarding soap vs. alcohol – I'm sure all that was proven in the past will be dis-proven and all that has been dis-proven will be re-proved in the future. I carry alcohol soap and it seems to work. Ask me again after I've gotten very sick from something ; )

I inherited being cold all the time from my mom

Well that cuts both ways … I have felt chilled to the bone only a few times in my life but I also suffer all summer (even now that I've shrunk myself quite a bit).

BTW, there's an impressive amount of function packed into your 7.28lb base weight. I certainly don't come close to that light a base weight. But this discussion has given me the idea of giving my packing list the shock treatment by kinda matching yours … not matching brands, just getting as similar as I can without wholesale replacement. It'll make an interesting experiment.

I sometimes write out packing lists with generic labels only (no brands). This allows me to easily swap out one item for another and it takes the stigma of how expensive some gear is when showing the list to a newbie.

I'll chime in with a few thoughts.

1) The biggest potential areas to save weight seems to be with the quilt and pack. Your selections look fully functional for these areas but perhaps that function could be accomplished for less weight.

For the quilt you could look at a WLQ from enLIGHTened equipment at ~11oz and you could look at a pack made from 1.5oz cuben like the Zpacks Zero as others have mentioned. A 2000ci Zero pack in 1.5oz cuben is only 2.7oz and $85. In total you could save well over a pound in these three areas for minimal changes in functionality. Admittedly the cost is high for the quilt suggestion, but the rain pants and cuben pack could collectively drop 3/4 lbs for ~$150.

Maybe it's not worth the money to do this at this time, but it's something to keep in mind when this stuff does need replacing. Also keep in mind that you could sell your existing gear and make some of these changes for quite a small difference. You might be able to sell the Amp and buy a Zpacks Zero revenue neutral.

2) Ben Smith from GooseFeet made me a custom pair of Down pants that have really rocked my world. They weigh 7.3oz and that includes 3-4oz of down so they are super toasty. Price was reasonable…I think ~$140. I understand the advantages of synthetics in applications like jkts, but with insulation pants they are almost never worn while actually hiking so I find down pants much easier to keep dry. I mostly use them as a quilt supplement on cold nights or I wear them under my hiking pants around camp on cold evenings. These pants probably have double the loft of my Montbell UL Inner, so I imagine they would be significantly warmer than your Cocoon pants, they'd pack smaller, and you'd save ~3oz.

3) Regarding the windshirt/rain jkt function overlap discussion, I agree with you Sam that just using the windshirt is sketchy. If I had to leave one of these garments behind it would absolutely be the windshirt, not the rain jkt. I can deal with being a little clammy hiking in my rain jkt, but I'm not a happy hiker if I'm soaked in my windshirt during an all day rain. I've tried nearly every DWR coating out there and none of them holds up to extended rain fall.

4) What are you doing for lower body rain protection? Just getting wet?

Dan, thanks for the insightful comments. Below are comments on most of what you discussed.

A different quilt is on my long-term list of items to replace. I haven't begun to research this but I have begun to sell other gear off. Tim's enLIGHTened Equipment as well as a small handful of others are on my research list.

You and a number of others have suggested the Zpacks Zero as a good replacement to the Amp but I doubt this suggestion has been made with anything other than weight in mind. The Zero pack is far too basic for my needs. The side pockets, padded shoulder straps, and minimal waistbelt of the ULA Amp as well as Brian's nearly signature comfort in pack construction are all key elements of that pack versus a stuff sack with shoulder straps (which is essentially what the Zero is). Replacing the Amp with a cuben fiber pack will save weight but it can't be at the cost of comfort and function.

I would be more apt to use a set of down pants vs. my synthetic ones and will probably move in that direction in the future once my current set has lived out its useful days. Waterproof qualities are less important there because I do, like you, primarily use them while under my tarp and in my quilt.

Rain protection below the waist for me is either nothing at all or a pair of DriDuck rain pants that I've cut open and re-glued back together into a rain skirt. It's not on this list but it gets carried with me on colder trips where keeping dry is more important to my warmth.

I cut and glued a pair of Dri-Duck pants into a skirt too!

Did I show you mine at one point last summer?

This is a super easy do-it-yourself project. Scissors, BARGE cement, and about 10 minutes.

The actual DRI-DUCKS pants are too easily shreaded to be useful on the trail.

Yeah, I got the idea from you, Mike C. I first made a set of knickers out of Tyvek but quickly tore out the seam.

"You and a number of others have suggested the Zpacks Zero as a good replacement to the Amp but I doubt this suggestion has been made with anything other than weight in mind. The Zero pack is far too basic for my needs. The side pockets, padded shoulder straps, and minimal waistbelt of the ULA Amp as well as Brian's nearly signature comfort in pack construction are all key elements of that pack versus a stuff sack with shoulder straps (which is essentially what the Zero is). Replacing the Amp with a cuben fiber pack will save weight but it can't be at the cost of comfort and function."

You're totally right. I was too focused on weight and not enough on preserving (or enhancing) function. Maybe when the cuben version of the MLD Burn comes out it will be a more functional fit. You could also add features to the 2000 ci Zero if you wanted. The side pockets (0.2oz x 2) and simple waistbelt (0.9oz) would put it at 4oz and $115. I believe it does have padded shoulder straps.

In preparation for a trip over Labor Day I was considering asking the public at large to review my current gear list but having spent the last half hour reviewing this old thread from 2010 I don't expect I'd receive much of any different suggestions.

I've quit carrying a few things, have swapped some specific brands/models, have built some more MYOG gear, but for the most part it's very similar. Gram weenies take note the list has 7.8 oz of swimming trunks for hot springs. Base weight would be reduced from 6.55 lb to 6.06 lb when these are not needed.

But, for those who enjoy this kind of stuff here it is in it's summer 2014 state:

I think you have your list pretty dialed from years of experience Sam, and it works, so until stuff wears out, there's not that much point in thinking about changing it. There are options out there to save an ounce here and there but its not worth it when you are used to your gear set, its functional, and the weight is down that far. Spend money on trips, or messing around with MYOG :-)

Edit: Is your camera on that list?

Adam, I'm much more interested in replacing gear with something I build myself, that's for sure. And no, as a matter of fact my camera did NOT make it onto this updated list. Must rectify that! I either carry my 15 oz Lumix or my 5 oz phone/gps/camera.

I don't see much worth changing, except maybe the rain jacket. 15 ounces seems awfully heavy unless you expect to encounter lots of rain. My Frogg Toggs jacket only weighs 5.65 ounces, but I live in super dry Colorado.

And yeah, the swim trunks could probably get ditched. You could swim in your undies, I always just wear my compression shorts.

Obviously everyone here wants to get as light as possible, but I feel like once you get your kit under 7 or 8 pounds base for the summer, it just becomes a mental exercise or an excuse to go buy some new cool stuff. It's probably not worth ditching the trunks and a bomber rain jacket when you are already at 6.55 lbs.

I agree, Andrew. I'm not alone here on the BPL forums in over-analyzing these lists – I find it an enjoyable exercise – but for the most part once you've reached sub 10 lbs you can carry four days of food + gear and a little water in exceptional comfort.

That being said I also have an SUL list that lives just a few ounces over 5 lbs. by swapping things like my DriDucks for the beefier Marmot jacket. This list is more experimental for me however and I don't put it use as-is very often. Call me lame but I like a real sleeping mat and a bag that actually keeps me warm the closer I get to the 40 year mark.

The eLite seems a bit under-powered for hiking in the dark in an unplanned situation. What has been your experience?

From the fresh perspective angle:

use sticks or rocks instead of stakes
cook on a twig fire – eliminates stove
go no-cook – eliminates stove and pot and possibly utensil

The eLite is fine for all camp tasks and is acceptable (although not ideal) for night hiking. In an emergency situation such as coming off a summit later than expected it passes muster but isn't my first choice. When I know ahead of time that a trip will require me to hike after dark however I bring a more robust lamp.

As for weight reduction by removing a stove I do often choose to do this and only bring a cookpot with me. However my general list being reviewed here includes a stove so that a fire isn't a necessary part of my routine (slower, not always legal). The no cook option is one I tested out once or twice but didn't enjoy it enough.

Once in a terrible rainstorm my husband and I evacuated off a high ridge at midnight and all we had was our two eLites, they were just fine and we walked in pouring rain and lightning for three hours straight with no difficulties seeing rocks, holes (abandoned mine shafts and open wells) and other potentially harmful obstacles, until dawn and we were happy with the headlamps. They don't throw a long strong beam like other headlamps but were perfectly adequate.