ROI of upgrading

That's a very personal thing. It truly is up to you to decide what's "worth it," and that will vary with each person. Some will pay $20+ per ounce saved. Others won't.

Me personally? It depends on the item. For an example off the top of my head, I might pay $30 for a Petzel e+Lite to replace my current headlamp. I'd save 1.5 ounces for $20 an ounce. But I wouldn't pay that same $20 an ounce for a new sleeping bag that I might have to shell out hundreds of dollars for.

$10 a gram is my limit.
that's $283.75 per ounce.

I'm mostly interested in speed over long distance, and every gram helps.
(not that I'm that fast … its all relative to how slow I used to be).

Great question. I was recently presented with a difficult choice between two different sleeping bags. It came down between saving 5oz or $231 dollars. This time, I kept the extra $231. The $46 per ounce was just too much to justify at this time. Also, it will be a bag that I use for a really limited part of the year (that weird zone just between 3-season and a real winter bag).

On the other hand, I'll be shaving off 8oz when I buy a new bivy sack later this month. In this case, it'll be a cost of $8.75 per ounce. So, for me this makes way more sense.

Don't really count pennies when it comes to going lighter. If I want a piece of gear I get it, and often sell the older heavier gear. The only thing I typically have more than 1 of is stoves, and sleeping bags. Everything else is a very cut and dry list of items.

I've spent thousands of dollars on gear, and since I just started Tenkara fly fishing, I'll most likely spend another couple thousand to lighten my pack and make room for some fishing weight,

Well I hadn't really thought of it much myself till today. I was weighing 2 different gear purchases for the limited amount I had. So I made a quick excel calc to help me decide. That led to a bunch of "What if?" scenarios, and me deciding I really didn't want to spend more money, unless I'm replacing a something that broke or something I wasn't satified with.

That's a good idea, to run the $ per ounce saved calculation before investing in new gear.

I just did a study on shelters. Changing from my Gossamer Gear/Tarptent Squall Classic to a ZPacks Twin Hexamid would cost $21 per ounce of weight saved–assuming I could sell the Squall Classic for $200. Total weight saving would be 9 ounces. If my 80-lb. dog and I could fit comfortably in a single Hexamid, then the weight savings would be greater, total cost would be less and therefore the dollar amount per ounce would be smaller. I've had experience trying to squeeze my dog and me into a solo tent, though, and I don't want to try that again! Joe of ZPacks doesn't think that squeezing into the solo Hexamid would be a good idea for my dog and me, either.

Besides, I really love my Squall Classic and am still dubious about the Hexamid in nasty weather. I may change my mind in another year or two.

I also looked at tarps (which I want to try after bug season is over). I will be using a silnylon tarp this year (I already have it, so it's $0), but if I like it, I'll want to buy a lighter one. I can't justify getting cuben fiber (as compared to the Gossamer Gear Spinn Twin) for the considerable extra cost per ounce of weight savings, especially for the small amount of time (September and early October) that I will use it.

No, I don't want to use a tarp in bug season. I need a bug-free space for my dog as well as me, and I haven't yet found a combination of tarp+bug net+ground sheet for two that weighs less than my Squall Classic.

To some, the extra weight savings of cuben fiber are well worth the cost. To me, they aren't–yet! This is an individual choice that everyone getting a piece of new gear to replace the old is going to have to make.

"$10 a gram is my limit.
that's $283.75 per ounce.

I'm mostly interested in speed over long distance, and every gram helps.
(not that I'm that fast … its all relative to how slow I used to be)."

You could hire me to do a pack shakedown for ya, and I'll only cost $200/oz. :-D

You buy the best, lightest gear you can afford that suits your purposes. When you have an inflexible budget, your dollars/oz savings method is as good as any. I've used that method myself when deciding whether to upgrade.

Every time I see a 3oz Pocket Rocket type stove pop up on gear swap for $25, I think about buying it to replace my 7oz Windpro, but I never pull the trigger even though $6/oz is a pretty good ratio and $25 isn't too much money.

On the other hand, in the spring I bought a set of LT4 poles to upgrade my Black Diamond poles. Total weight saving was ~8oz and the ratio was $22/oz every time I hike 15 miles in a day, I'm glad I spent the money to save 4 oz/arm.

And this winter, if I can't afford a Western Mountaineering Antelope or Kodiak, and I don't end up MYOG a winter quilt, I'll just have to rent heavy bags at EMS or limit myself to the temp range my current set up can afford. When I'm buying new, I'd rather wait and get exactly what I want then spend less and still want what I want but have less money to buy it eventuall.

I tend to evaluate expensive gear purchases more on utility and longevity than straight weight savings. Western Mountaineering bags are light, but they're also incredibly well made and will last for a very long time. It's very likely I'll not want to upgrade, so it is money well spent. Same thing when we bought out Trailstar last year. Not only was it lighter than our tent and bigger than our tarp and bivies, but was bigger and more weather resistant than both, and would work for almost all trips.

Caveat: I don't own any cuben, don't aspire to SUL, and don't sell much on gear swap.

I brought this up a couple years ago and I'm still interested. I think the analysis does help decide where to reduce weight with minimal cost. For example, it may pay off to reduce the weight of several inexpensive items than to tackle a $300 down sleeping bag.

Performance is the tricky part. Evaluating weight and cost is a simple calculator session, but performance can be tricky.

People think very differently from one another. For example some will work out the "exact" calorie amount they need for the day, I just put what it looks enough for me in a bag…
As for gear , if I really like the look /feel perceived performance of an item, I will buy it regardless of the cost per gram or whatever.
So when I bought the Neo Air I already had several mats that did the job for me but I just wanted to get a Neo Air… (happy with it)
BTW, contrary to the often assumed "people that buy LW gear are snobs…" I could not care less if others like or not what I have, they are my toys , for ME.
Franco

Of course cost per ounce saved is only one of many, many factors! Even though I'm on a fairly low budget, it governs my decision only when I have doubts about other benefits of a purchase.

I do advise doing the calculation, simply because it helps you look more carefully at the many other aspects of the contemplated purchase!

I spent most of today studying for the CPA exam and then I came home to relax and saw this thread. ROI = return on sales x asset (capital) turnover. I need to go out backpacking soon!

I'm w/ David on this one- I don't mind dropping a little coin for lighter weights, but it is especially appealing when the item(s) are first rate quality and built to last awhile. I have a much harder time dropping that same coin when I know the item is on the frail side and probably won't last long.

The other plus side of quality/longevity is that often you can recoup a major portion of your original purchase if you decide to move onto something else (something that seems to happen w/ a lot of us! :) ).

I buy when its

1. replacing something Worn out

2. Its replacing something unsuitable

3. Replacing something that is obviously heavy

a few extra ounces wont kill u …

Poor, poor UL junkies…

Here, try this, you're gonna love it…Straight from a sweet connection in Asia.

Just a few more grams…then I'll stop, I swear.

My wife doesn't even have to know I bought it. It's the last time, I swear. Sweaty palms, forking over crisp $100 dollar bills.

But you don't stop…and it always takes just a little bit more every time, doesn't it?

Look on the bright side!
$10/gram is still cheaper than heroin.

"$10/gram is still cheaper than heroin."

That's a classic line. I'll have to remember that one the next time some small box/envelope comes to the home with something cuben or titanium…

Francis

Eric Chan blasphemed: "a few extra ounces wont kill u …"

Sacrilege! Cut a switch from the vine maple! :)

Fine, then you can carry the beer— in bottles :)

The way I judge the value of weight savings per dollar spent (oz./$) in a potential upgrade is that simple ratio, plus a comparative advantage analysis to other potential upgrades of similar need or want. The Petzl E-Lite (1oz.) [IMO is a great example for this application, and I'm glad an above poster brought it up… reminded me of the time I was actually serious about that thing until I did the math] for $30 vs… my $10 Coleman/Energizer 3AAA headlamp (2.7oz) for example.

So, if I replaced my headlamp with a Petzl E-Lite bought new, I would save 1.7oz. I would save only 0.056oz. per dollar spent {1.7/30}.

If that does not look bad enough, in light of some other things I want, like a GG G4 (which has a much higher comparative advantage to me than a headlamp), the weight savings/dollar spent (oz./$) makes the new headlamp pretty much worthless to me.

My comparison also does not factor in the original cost of the item I will be replacing, even assuming that I don't sell the piece for near the amount I bought for. I've never even sold any of my old stuff, I give it to the Troop Quartermaster for use by new Scouts. So in reality in the Petzl E-Lite example should indicate that in the long haul I am spending $40 to eventually carry 1 oz. instead of 2.7oz. Not worth it to me.

This is the comparison I've used ever since I read about it on BPL some long time ago and incorporated it on all my Excel SSs. I look back and realize that it's not more complicated at all than your basic grocery shopping unit price comparison. My goodness does math & economics help with BPingLyt.

Go find some awesome gear!

-Evan

P.S. @ Dale… I carry a spare pair of batteries for my lights when I go outdoors… one time I almost fell off a cliff cuz my pack weighed an extra half ounce! :D Strike me dead with lightning! :p

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psychic gluttony

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