Stretching the Sleep System

[Gregory Topf]

So here is the dilemna that I need to solve muy pronto:

I am a cold sleeper and expect to encounter sleepytime temps in the mid-high 20s on a 5-nighter next week.

Lightweight bags/quilts I own and love at approx 21 oz each:
Montbell Super Spiral #3 (30 deg)
GoLite Ultra 20 quilt

On top of my sleeping cold, we all know the temp ratings on these two are a wee bit generous. I don't want to shell out 400 bucks this year on a nice light 15 degree bag, so I have these options:

1. My old Sierra Designs Cloudripper 15 degree bag: 51 ounces, waterproof, maybe ditch the bivy and go tarp only. Cool nostalgia trip too.

2. Throw on another down jacket: Eddie Bauer Downlight at approx 13 ounces and/or double base layer 16 ounces I already will sleep in lightweight down parka/pants regardless. The fit of the jackets is such that there would be little compression.

3. GoLite quilt on top of Montbell bag. Not sure this even makes sense but it's lighter than the 'ripper and would be kind of neat.

Probably I need to bring more warmth than most people need but for me I need to stretch the sleep system with one of the above options. I could go with any of these options or combo and be happy, though there could really a weight penalty or added complexity/flexibility depending on the approach.

What would you do?

[S Long]

I would bring the Montbell and maybe invest in a decent liner like the Montbell Thermal Sheet or ID ThermoLite and an Emergency Essentials heat sheets bivy sack (vapor barrier). Put the liner in the bivy sack and then put the entire thing in the Montbell bag. I also found (as I am sure you know) that the sleeping pad makes a LOT of difference in how warm you stay through the night.

[Philip Maynard]

Remember that you create heat, the bags just help keep it in. Eat a big dinner with some fat in it. I like olive oil.

How heavy is your tarp + bivy? That's not as warm as a double-wall tent – do you have that as an option? It might be lighter than a warmer bag.

What's the sleeping pad situation? If it's marginal, 1/2 of a Wal-Mart $6 blue pad underneath is only 6oz and will make a big difference.

Finally, the loft: if you can't get help above, double it up.

Toss the Go-Lite quilt on top of the Mont-Bell. Don't put a lofty liner inside your bag, as you'll crush the whole thing at make it worse. But throwing the quilt overtop will help tremendously. Maybe even put it over the bivy if it doesn't fit inside – all those extra interfaces bewteen layers will help a lot.

The same does with the down jacket – bring it in the bag or bivvy with you, but don't wear it. Wearing a jacket, especially down, inside a bag is just going to compress most of the insulation and make it worthless. The only time I wear a jacket in my bag is when it has a good hood and my bag/quilt doesn't. Otherwise it's more efficient as a blanket.

From my own experience – get the Wal-Mart foam pad for under your current pad, and use the down jacket like a blanket between the bivy and bag, or inside the bag if it fits and lofts inside. Those two should have the biggest weight/warmth impact, and I think they will be enough.

[Konrad .]

I too own a GoLite Ultra 20, and though its only truly rated for temps around 30-35, I've pushed it into the low/mid 20's.

You haven't mentioned what type of pad you will be sleeping on, which is just as essential as any other part of your sleep system.

What worked for me was the following setup.

Mat: Wal-mart Blue foam pad underneath a neoair. (Will be even warmer with the blue foam mat ON TOP of the neoair)
Bag: GoLite Ultra 20 quilt
Sleep System: Wool beanie, First Ascent Serrano Jacket (primaloft) and TNF Red Point Pants (primaloft), and Normal winterweight baselayers underneath it all.

My body was warm all night, so long as I didn't toss and turn too much, and let in any drafts. I was in a tent, but I think a bivy (no experience, sorry) will mitigate the drafts as well

I could have used a down sweater (like what you are contemplating) and been just as fine. A down sweater will generally keep you comfortable around 30-35 degrees if you are just standing around camp, & inactive. If I'm moving a down sweater will keep me warm in the low 20's. Either way, couple that with a 30 degree quilt, and you will be comfy.

However, pay attention to your feet! My toes were freezing the whole night. I had made the mistake of wearing single layer mountaineering boots on this particular trip, which left my toes chilled. I wasn't able to keep my feet warm all night, as I only had my mountaineering socks to sleep in. I resorted to handwarmers, and wearing my waterproof mitts on my feet in an attempt to trap some warm air down there. Perhaps it would have been different had they not been chilled in the first place, but for future trips I plan on bringing down socks/booties.

But again, make sure you have an adequate sleeping mat, w/ high r-value, or at least plan on supplementing with a CCF of some sort

[Gregory Topf]

All,

Thanks for the suggestions and refinements. I am also packrafting on this trip so am bringing an Pac Outdoor Ether Thermo 6 2/3 which fits inside my Alpacka, and I may sleep on top of a deflated raft too. The ET6 is not the warmest pad so adding the blue foam solution has great appeal. Perhaps additional flotation as well….

The question of loft and drafts is one I have sometimes unsuccessfully confronted in the past. Getting inside the Montbell and throwing the GoLite Quilt on top while using down jacket as a blanket would seem to give the best possibility of minimizing drafts and maximizing loft.

As for VBL, I have a WM Hotsack but don't believe it will be quite cold enough for that route. Besides, I only sleep naked inside VBLs.

Cheers, and if anyone else has something to add it would be great.

[Author]

Posts