Solid-vs-liquid foods

"However, all my experience between the two methods both in my cycling racing or & hiking has convinced me to stick with the"

Could you finish the sentence, Michael? It sounds like you're starting an interesting thread, but I'm not sure yet where you're going to go.

Thanks,

Tom

I won't claim to be the endurance athlete of some of the folks here, but I've done my share of tough hikes. One week ago, I hiked Mount Whitney – Year 35.

I've found that when I am physically stressed that way, there is no way that I can eat anything remotely normal and expect it to digest. As a result, I rely on sports drinks such as Gatorade. During the entire long day on Whitney, I consumed only 250 calories of solid food plus a quart of Gatorade and another 1.2 quart of water.

–B.G.–

"However, all my experience between the two methods both in my cycling racing or & hiking has convinced me to stick with the"

Sonuva…I need closure!

I prefer a liquid diet on the trail.

Ummm..no "dental cleaning"? You still have to brush your teeth even with liquids! In many ways a liquid diet would do worse damage as it is coating your teeth (think kids who drink pop/juice without a straw – a straw bypasses your teeth).

So brush those teeth and floss. Unless ya wanna make your dentist rich :-P

"No "potty-cat hole" needed. Liquid foods go straight to body use, your "not pushing" fiber or bulk into waste system."

No
You might have skipped a day but have that liquid diet for a week and see what happens…

One point not considered is that some don't necessarily live to eat but nevertheless do enjoy eating. A liquid diet is hardly going to do that.
That is of course is only applicable to people like me that hike for fun not for sport or glory.
Franco

Franco's absolutely correct based on my experiences. I cat holed much more than the solid food portion of my diet could contribute. I was also in a calorie deficit as indicated by my weight loss.

Let's just say that our digestive systems are not set up to squeeze out every last molecule of nutrition in the foods we consume. Even if a source of "pure" nutrients were used and completely consumed, there's still bile and other gooey gunk in there that's going to want to come out.

I think sports drinks have their place. I rode the 200 mile Seattle to Portland Bicycle Classic a few years ago on nothing but Perpetuem. I thought it worked well for that application, but in the back country I really enjoy a good meal:

I don't mind cat holes that much, I guess.

G

There is a difference between what the body can stand for a day or two and over time.
For a one day race, liquids may do. Over a week or two no.
Have a look at , for example, the cyclists doing the Tour De France. They eat solids before AND during the race.
http://nutritionnibbles.blogspot.com/2010/07/nutrition-at-tour-de-france.html
Note that out of the 6000 or so calories ingested every day, about 700 to 800 were in liquid form.

From six month (more or less) and up we are meant to eat solids. (BTW, new born babies Poop…)
Franco

Hmm, I guess that depends on the liquids and solids used in your diet. I'd get 3000 calories a day from my drinks and another 1500 calories from nuts and assorted snacks. My stomach never got queasy and my poops were textbook perfect, possibly the best I've ever had, and big solid meals in town weren't a problem either. I only did this for a little over a month, but I consistently good. A look at my diet would find lots of fiber, a good balance of carbs/fat/protein, omega-3's and other essential fatty acids, vitamins & minerals and electrolytes. No simple sugars like maltodextrin, glucose, fructose, sucrose, etc.

Now I will admit into bumping into a section hiker that was using a Carnation Instant Breakfast drink for one of his daily meals. He claimed those drinks were giving him diarrhea. I think poorly of products like that, so I'm not surprised.

Another perspective!
My other sport is mountain bike endurance racing… and 24hrs races are up there as the longest time spent actually in the saddle as opposed to stage races which may go for a week or two but generally no overnight involved
… and while most folks can actually do a 24hr race on 'synthetics' ie bars, gels and powder in the bidon etc… most folks actually do better by having 'normal' (and hot!) food as well … it is just hard work mentally anyway and to have something to look forward to at the end of a lap at 2 in the morning …

I'm really enjoying these solid vs liquid food threads. Lots of interesting information and perspectives.

I'm going to be doing my first thru-hike (168 miles in 9 days) in October, and while I've spent the last couple years using BPL to refine my gear list, I've pretty much ignored nutrition.

Like Bob, I find it very hard to eat solid foods when physically active at elevation. I find it dreadful trying to choke down a couple handfuls of trail mix, washed down with lukewarm water, at lunch or during breaks in the midst of a long hike.

I always end up packing about 3200 calories/day but probably only consume 2500 of those, tops. Assuming over the course of 9-10 hours of strenuous hiking I'm burning well over 4500 calories (based on a bunch of generic calorie burn estimators found online), a 2000 calorie/day deficit would not be acceptable over 9 days.

At the end of every 14+mile hike I've done, I always end up with 'zombie legs' starting around mile 14. Not sore exactly, just numb, mechanically putting one foot in front of the other, not enjoying myself at all. I hadn't really ever considered that this might be due my body just running out of fuel.

For this upcoming trip, as of now I'm packing ~27-28oz of food per day, coming to ~3900 calories. The calories are split almost equally between solid/liquid (1900/2000). The weight split works about about the same as well (13oz/15oz).

Unfortunately, time and budget won't allow me to take this diet out for a test run before my trip, but since I'm stopping in town to resupply at the halfway point, if the liquid diet doesn't work out for me, I can just switch back to all solid foods. But I'm hoping the liquid works.

Franco…oh brother…do they POOP! Anyone who thinks a liquid diet is grand is MORE THAN WELCOME to come change a few of Walker's "little love presents" anytime.

Hehheh!

I did not complete the message before hitting "post", sorry, wasn't trying to set up a "cliff hanger", so:

I'll stick to liquid fuel "during hikes". I use 1-2 scoops of recoverite powder immediately post-hike/race.-hr, or 2-day race, I continue with Hammer Nutrition guide of fueling for ultra racers.

For dinner though . . . it's solid foods!

I only don't "dental care" during the hike, or immediately after my pre-race meal if I'm driving to the start. I do tend to "swish" some mouth rinse though to kill some of the "baddies". full dental care after the hike/race.

My dental hygenist is a monster! She has me on a strict 5-step cleaning process after every meal. I must look funny in camp (toothpick, floss, brush, proxy brush, rinse)

Even my "solid foods" are dried, or dehydrated. I try to pre-mix them in the "boil in bag" sacks ahead of time. Weight savings is still a top priority.

As for "how far on liquid meals can you go?", look at the winning solo or team RAAM (Race Across America) racers, ultra sports like Eco-Challenge, the majority of them use a liquid or liquid/bar fueling.

As for International racers (i.e. Tour de France, etc.) they use a lot of liquid and bars. Yes many eat solid foods during the race, but many times its "just for a change".

And as for the steak cooking photo, is pleasing, just watch out for the cancer causing carbons of the "too much cooking"

From Harvard Health Publications:

When meat is cooked at high temperatures, amino acids react with creatine to form heterocyclic amines, which are thought to cause cancer. That’s why cooking meat by grilling, frying, or broiling is the problem. Grilling is double trouble because it also exposes meat to cancer-causing chemicals contained in the smoke that rises from burning coals and any drips of fat that cause flare-ups. How long the meat is cooked is also a factor in heterocyclic amine formation; longer cooking time means more heterocyclic amines. Depending on the temperature at which it’s cooked, meat roasted or baked in the oven may contain some heterocyclic amines, but it’s likely to be considerably less than in grilled, fried, or broiled meat.

I just got my braces off after over 2 1/2 years – I now carry a fraction of the dental stuff I did when they were on. But honestly…dental care is SO important and I am glad you have such a good hygienist! :-)

I many times have "conducted" my dental routine on the trail. Must be quite a sight to see someone flossing, brushing, tooth-picking, etc. in the high Sierras.

Last week, I decided to do 2-20mi days, car-camp base-camp. So after dinner, no one around, so I head to the only "men's" restroom (running water, flush toilets, etc.). There I was middle of my dental routine . . . I hear two young boys outside trying the door. One, sadly close to tears, whispered to brother that it was occupied, and he just "can't hold it any longer!" I stuck to the end of my dental task before leaving! Patty (hygienist) would have laughed, but made sure I finished!

Keep up the food menu ideas rolling, Sarah!

"I many times have "conducted" my dental routine on the trail. Must be quite a sight to see someone flossing, brushing, tooth-picking, etc. in the high Sierras."

I've practiced in front of the mirror, adding an occasional flourish to dramatize high points, and now use it to entertain my hiking buddies after dinner. It makes great shadows around a camp fire.

As for using liquid fuel, I use it while I'm on the move and have good substantial meals at either end of the day. The whole idea for me is to use high carb liquid fuel during the day to support the oxidation of body fat without diverting blood from the working muscles to digest whole food. It's also a lot less fuss and bother to mix up a Perpetuem slurry and just sip for hours without having to do anything else but sip water and possibly stop to load up on water occasionally. Different strokes, as always, but it works well for me.

Sarah
Yes I was thinking of you.
I don't have children but grew up with a tribe of younger cousins…

As for the Tour De France, as I pointed out , the average liquid intake in calories is less than 13% of the daily total.
The usual meal before the race is a big plate of pasta…
BTW the typical pro cycling team has 20-25 riders (9 compete in the tour) and a medical staff of 6-8 , including nutritionists…

To a lot of people food is not just fuel , it is an enjoyable experience and a moral boost.
That is one of the reasons why many cannot do a through hike consuming the same food (or drink) day in and out.
Endurance events are won and "lost" mentally, not just physically…

Yes charcoal meat is not healthy but I don't think there are many multi day hikers that carry fresh meat.

Franco

Michael C wrote:
>>And as for the steak cooking photo, is pleasing, just watch out for the cancer causing carbons of the "too much cooking"<<

Fair enough, but I wasn't frying or cooking on a grill. I was cooking meat over a fire, which humans have been doing for at least 50,000 years. That's a mighty long track record. Sure, there may be some risk, but it's a risk I am willing to take. The greater risk would be if I didn't cook that steak! Plus it woudn't be nearly as delicious.

G

Lol…living on the edge – enjoying a tasty steak! ;-)

I was never a meat eater of any consequence till I met my husband and his love of grilling. Him, his grill, wood charcoal and steaks from Costco….I became a fan the second I took a piece of filet mignon and nibbled on it. Like nectar from the gods.

I honestly think the reason I was a vegan back in the days was because I couldn't cook meat right.

Sarah,

I mostly live a non-gluten, non-dairy lifestyle, due to some nutrition and health reasons.

Only reason I eat beef, salmon, oysters, clams, etc. is to boost up an anemia/low blood iron level threat.

But, like you, a great-lean-piece of meat . . . tolerable . . . eh?

Gordon, just humor on the posting of "risk of cooking meat", really, just having fun.

As to the Tour racers, they have follow support vehicles to carry their food. I know a lot of pro racers, many use liquid foods & bars during race.

Also if your body is not use to the liquid foods and bars your going to multi-day, or all-day hike, then your looking at trouble. You must practice and experiment to see what your body can handle.

I use Hammer products due to their care to research, and test, ingredients/products prior to marketing, which is part of the expensive price.

Again, if I am only doing day hikes, then I will have solid foods at night, but liquid "pre-hike". If on a UL-long mile day-overnght or 2-night hike, I stick to liquids, maybe a few bars, and some dried fruits and low sodium turkey or buffalo jerkey.

Surprising just how many days' worth of fuel you can stuff in a Bear Vault 350 when the powers are rolling and bagged for each day. And little trash & cooking/eating equipt. to haul around.

Hope I did not ruin this thread with too many postings, I like this discussion so far.

Surprising just how many days' worth of fuel you can stuff in a Bear Vault 350 when the powers are rolling and bagged for each day.

I thought about individually bagging each serving of Perpetuem, (2 each day x 5) but I've been experimenting at home with using a duct tape funnel (.11 oz) so I can just dump the whole lot of powder in one OPsack along with the scoop (.25 oz with the handle on). If I spent some time on it, I could probably size the funnel to equal one scoop and drop that as well. I just don't like lots of baggies floating around, and since I never end up re-using them, it costs me money.

One baggie of powder per day works well for me. I put it into the mesh panel pocket in the rear of my pack for easy access. It also means less abuse and time wasted on my food container, whether that be a bear canister, Ursack and maybe even an Opsack. Actually, the main reason I did it is that I don't have to keep track of how much I've consumed every day because all I have to do is empty the bag by the end of the day.

You're right about how compact powders can be. I once accidentally stuffed 11 days of powder and gorp into an Ursack when I blindly stuffed it full thinking that it should only hold about 5 days of food. Oh yeah, 4500 calories a day.