Easton Kilo

"Only 4 stakes needed…"

It looks to me like you need 6 stakes because the vestibule needs two more, in addition to the 4 you need for the 4 corners of the tent inner. I don't think the vestibule just attaches to the end of the inner tent body because that would mean almost no vestibule space, whereas the diagram indicates a pretty generous vestibule size.

Dan
yes I did see that..
My comment was about the bit that in the US is called a tent and everybody else calls an inner.
Still. there are freestanding tents that need 11-13 pegs, so this is more freestanding than some.
Franco

It looks to me like the two pegs in front don't have to be that strong. They aren't needed to prevent the tent from blowing away or providing support. This means that you can probably get by with really little stakes for those (or even just tie to little rocks).

I've been having good luck this season with Terra Nova 2g stakes. They are hard to permanently bend since ti is springy and they have pretty good holding power. I use mostly 2g stakes with one or two 8g stakes for key areas and/or creating pilot holes (which I've never needed to do yet). I'd probably use five 2g stakes and one 8g ti hook stake with the kilo.

Anyone know when this tent will be available?

Thanks

Easton has the said it will be available in the 'spring' but nothing more specific then that. I imagine they'll want it available for buyers next season stocking up on gear starting around March, so that's my guess.

Spring is iffy for thru-hikers trying to gear up for next year.

Weighed a length of 3/32" bungee cord from a 13+ foot long carbon dome pole I was repairing. Result, just under .6 oz. So what kind of serious weight savings are possible from limiting the cord to the area around the hardware connecting the pole sections. Plus you need extra hardware to secure the cord to both sections. My conclusion is that the claim on Easton's web site that there are significant weight savings from not having the cord strung the length of the pole is hype.

Also, was wondering about the small radius arc on one pole and the long arc on the other. No one carbon pole could function effectively on this design with two such widely different arcs. Unless they have obtained a unique supplier of prebent carbon tubing, one pole would be either too tightly bent, and likely to break, or the other would have very little tension, and would balloon in the wind and allow the tent to buffet severely.

As pointed out in several posts on this thread, this tent does not improve much over current dome designs that do not pitch dry in the rain, do allow rain in on exit and entry, have no effective overhang for cooking, require stakes to hold the corners apart, and have areas of the wall that slope very sharply inward. Given that, and the above points that just don't add up, it is probably fortunate that sales will not commence until 2011.

Maybe I missed this. But does anyone have any opinions on snow loading or wind worthiness????

How did they miss the ventilation though???

Glad to see the rubber bungees going away. It would seem to work with aluminum poles too.

And I was just about to buy a 3+ season tent for myself. I think I'll hang in there a bit.

Weighed a length of 3/32" bungee cord from a 13+ foot long carbon dome pole I was repairing. Result, just under .6 oz. So what kind of serious weight savings are possible from limiting the cord to the area around the hardware connecting the pole sections.

Normal tent poles use 1/8" shockcord, not 3/32". 1/8" weighs nearly double 3/32 (.18g/inch vs. 0.097g/inch). So I would estimate the shockcord in a normal tent is maybe 2-3oz (2 poles @ double 1.2oz/pole).

My conclusion is that the claim on Easton's web site that there are significant weight savings from not having the cord strung the length of the pole is hype.

Easton claims the pole set for this tent weighs 150g which is extremely impressive for a 2 person tent. I had Fibraplex poles for my REI Quarterdome T2 tent which are a lot flimsier carbon poles than Easton's, and that poleset was 225g. Easton Carbon poles are quite strong.

wondering about the small radius arc on one pole and the long arc on the other. No one carbon pole could function effectively on this design with two such widely different arcs. Unless they have obtained a unique supplier of prebent carbon tubing, one pole would be either too tightly bent, and likely to break

Easton is the supplier. They primarily make poles/tubing and these tents are a small side project to showcase their poles. I'm sure they have a very good idea of the limitations of their own products and would not design a tent that is going to be beyond these limits.

You are right that the one arc does look pretty tight though. It's possible they are using prebent tubing.

this tent does not improve much over current dome designs that do not pitch dry in the rain, do allow rain in on exit and entry, have no effective overhang for cooking, require stakes to hold the corners apart, and have areas of the wall that slope very sharply inward.

The door looks nearly vertical. If you don't unzip the fly all the way you shouldn't get rain in on exit/entry. The slope of the tent walls looks very good for a tent with a minimal pole structure like this. The Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 uses a similar pole structure but has much worse wall lean. Interior space looks pretty good in most of the tent. The roof height is supposedly 44" which is a lot. Requiring stakes for the corners is no big deal, pretty much everyone would stake them down anyways. You're right the vestibule doesn't have much room.

anyone have any opinions on snow loading or wind worthiness????

Snow loading looks decent. I had a Carbon Reflex 2 last year with Easton Carbon Poles and they were quite stiff/strong. I believe these poles are basically the same carbon but with the different attachment system. The side walls looks pretty steep so I would guess it'll be pretty good for snow loads. You might have to knock it off a little bit down at the foot end?? For a 3 season tent it looks fine for winds….aside from the door end, there isn't large flat sides to catch wind. You probably wouldn't want that front door wall facing into a high wind since it's flat and just supported by the poking poking into the air.

How did they miss the ventilation though???
A top vent would be nice, but lots of double wall tents don't have them (ie. MSR). It leads to a bit more condensation on the inside of the fly but with steep walls I don't think this will be an issue as it would run down the walls instead of dripping into the tent.

As you guys can probably tell, I'm pretty exited about the Kilo. Here's why I'm hopeful:

– Headroom looks way better than any other sub 2.5lbs (or sub 3lbs) double wall tent (BA FC UL2, Vaude Power Lizard etc)
– Floor specs are quite large. If it's close to these it'll have tons of floor width. Easton claims the floor gets as wide as 57" and it's 91" long. Although it does taper a bit in both respects, it still looks to have a ton of floor area. The BPL Staffer at the show said it was 'quite livable' inside
– Sorta freestanding so I can shake the dirt out
– PU coated 30D floor is way better than silnylon.
– 2.0lbs / 32oz for poles, inner & fly.

I think the 2011 Nemo Obi Elite should give this a big run for the money. 31sq feet, steep vertical wall ends, over 40" of headroom, freestanding, double walled, side entry, and 2.7lbs. Oh, and cheaper. Money was spent on fabrics and design, instead of just the poles.

Dan,
Was wondering why you responded to my post after so much time, and then recalled another post suggesting that you had only recently fixed your compass on this tent. Maybe that's why.

You suggest that the Kilo's poles are the same as the FX used on the MSR tent. The FX poles weigh almost 12 grains per running inch, which is quite heavy for carbon – way too heavy for Roger, for example. From that, and from the pix on the EMP site, I think the poles on this new tent are different, and of smaller diameter. Emailed them a couple months ago to get some info about this, but was unsuccessful. So I concluded that until we know more about the poles, we cannot assume they are any stronger than the better arrow shafts, around the strength of Fibraplex, for example. IMO, poles of this strength are not suitable for hoop tents, as they are already too stressed when bent, even before the wind shocks them further, and are too prone to breakage. That's why Roger uses elbows. He has covered this much better than I can on this site and on Bushwalking also, if memory serves. But I make no judgments until the product is out for public view, and we can find out exactly what it is.

What's puzzling is the different arcs. Prebent? Roger has looked into this more than most and seems to feel that prebent is not happening, and may never happen due to the expense of manufacture. But who knows. Have to admit that I can't walk through any large sporting goods store without looking around for a carbon hula-hoop.

As for the tent itself, you are right about the headroom being superior to that in the BA Flycreeks, that have some similarities in design, and are also close to a kilo. Lots of tents are lightweight and have good headroom, but that alone is not sufficient IMO to justify purchasing another one. Even if I knew the poles were a significant improvement, and I don't, I'd still be deterred by the other shortcomings I mentioned in the earlier post. To mention just one, the lack of dry set-up and dry access/egress in the rain. If Tarptent, the Euros and others can design this in, then so can a big outfit like Easton.

So I still think 'wait and see' is being fair to this tent.
Sam

Was wondering why you responded to my post after so much time, and then recalled another post suggesting that you had only recently fixed your compass on this tent.

I just didn't notice your post until F. Thomas revived this thread today. You'll see on page 1 that I'm the main poster.

You suggest that the Kilo's poles are the same as the FX used on the MSR tent…I think the poles on this new tent are different, and of smaller diameter.
You're right, I'm wrong. I just found this pdf of Eastons 2011 line and these poles are indeed thinner. The pdf doesn't say much other than that the Ion poles 'utilize a small diameter' whereas the FX ones are their most robust. If they're as flexy as Fibraplex ones I don't feel so good about that.
http://eastonmountainproducts.com/pdf/easton-mountain-products-2011-summer-catalog.pdf

I think the 2011 Nemo Obi Elite should give this a big run for the money

This tent does look interesting. I hadn't seen it before.

According to the BPL report, it's got 27 sq ft inside, not 31. Also the 40" roof height is lower than the Kilo (44") so I'm not sure which will tent will be more 'livable'. I do prefer the Kilo's door on the end. If there's only going to be one door, I prefer an end entry instead of a side entry because you don't need to crawl over each other.

Pole structure looks like the standard X configuration. I'm not sure about they spent a lot of the design. The 10D fabrics are impressive.

I wonder if you'd get condensation inside the inner tent on the ends where the fly is cut away? The Nemo does have more vestibule space. The Nemo is $470 vs. $399.

I'll say it again, ALL tent designers should be required to spend 2 weeks in their tent in an area garanteed to have rain and/or snow. We might see and end to doors that let in the weather, among other design problems.

$470! Crap.

Re: sq footage, BPL listed the 1 person version with 31 sq ft and the 2 person with 27 sq ft. I think this was a typo and should have been reversed.

There is the non-elite version that will weigh a couple of ounces more but will be cheaper.

As always…a waiting game.

Regarding setting up tents in the rain, when I have a tent that requires the inner be setup before the fly what I do is:

– Clips all the poles together
– Get fly laid out
– Setup inner/poles as fast as possible
– Toss fly on

If it's a freestanding/sorta-freestanding tent then there isn't a lot of time that where inner is exposed…maybe 30 seconds. I've done in some pretty heavy rains on Vancouver Island and the rain inside was easily cleaned up in one go with my bandana.

I agree this isn't ideal, but it's not a huge deal IMO. Having a door that lets in rain if it's open is a bigger deal since you can't leave the doors open when it's raining and you get water in the tent frequently instead of just once.

BPL listed the 1 person version with 31 sq ft and the 2 person with 27 sq ft. I think this was a typo and should have been reversed.

Good point. I agree that it's likely 31 sq ft.

If the non-elite version is indeed cheaper, then it may be worth the extra 0.3lbs to save money and get dual doors and dual vestibules too.

Then again, the Kilo is supposedly just 2.0lbs for the poles/body/inner which is way lighter. With a cuben sack and ti stakes you could get it on the trail for 2.1 lbs if Easton isn't lying. My biggest concern is that Easton is exaggerating the dimensions. 50-57" wide for most of the length? 44" high? Those are pretty darn good specs that are hard to believe for a tent this light.

I'm going to buy something in the spring. I sold the cuben fly for my REI Quarterdome T2 (I got a good offer) so that tent is going to be sold when I get around to it. I'm not going to lug around 3.8 lbs.

Easton emailed me today to say that the Kilo will be shipping to dealers in February. I suppose this means if it's on schedule then they will go on sale in early March.

I can't find mention of the cost on EMS web site. Anyone know how much the tent costs? Can it be ordered anywhere online? Where?

Is this what one would call a 3 season tent or a 4 season tent?

thanks.

Price is $399. It's shipping to stores in Feb, so probably available around March. It can't be ordered anywhere yet. It's definitely a 3 season tent….I can't see those thin carbon poles holding up to much of a snow load.

Footsloggers has added this tent to the web store and they are taking pre-orders at $399. Of most interest, they expect to be able to ship this tent out to customers on Feb 20th which is coming up really soon.
http://store.footsloggers.com/easton-kilo-tent.html

Also of interest is that Easton is calling this a 'high capacity 2 person' tent, which hopefully means that it isn't ridiculously small. The specs all look pretty good. I'm planning to bite the bullet when someone gets one in stock. I do have some concerns with the tent but hopefully it ends up being a good design.

My main concerns are how flexy the thin carbon poles are, if the dimensions are really as generous as the specs claim (ie. 44" interior height? wow!), if the weight is on spec, and how well the door/vestibule area is going to work in the rain and for ingress/egress/storage.

Dan,
Since this tent is not fully freestanding, I'm wondering why you have not considered a TT Rainbow, or even a Double Rainbow? You could set it up in the rain, and use your trekking poles to make it freestanding when really necessary (rock/hardpan).
Plus a headliner is available. Costs much less. Just curious.
P.S. Do you think Henry will ever come out with a 'Moment-2-Moment?'

"I'm wondering why you have not considered a TT Rainbow, or even a Double Rainbow?"

I'm not considering the TT Rainbow because it's tiny for a 2 person tent and I need a tent for my wife and I.

The TT Double Rainbow is a nice design, but I'm not considering it anymore because:

1) It's far heavier. With the liner it's 44oz vs. about 32-34oz.

2) I really dislike Silnylon floors. The Kilo's PU floor is far more waterproof (5000mm vs. 1200mm) and it's not super slippery like silnylon. Yeah you can paint silnylon with diluted silicone caulk, but that adds weight and it turns the floor into an un-cleanable dust magnet. Putting silicone on the bottom of a sleeping pad sorta works, but the bottom of the floor still slides around on the ground. I've found this really annoying in the past.

Those are the main two reasons why I prefer the Kilo. A few other smaller reasons are that the Kilo is functionally freestanding, so it won't collapse if a stake pulls out in the night and I can move the tent around the site easily if I'm not happy with its location. I don't have spare trekking poles to use with a tent. Also the price isn't that different when you consider the Dbl Rainbow w Liner is $290 and it's pretty easy to find mainstream gear at 20% off, so I can probably get the Kilo for ~$320.

I do like that the Dbl Rainbow has two doors, two vestibules and it's likely bigger inside. If it had a PU floor and it shaved off half a pound by using Easton's new air lock carbon poles then it might be the winner.