UL REI STYLE – Yes it CAN Be Done

I think much depends on how one defines "UL".

Speaking for myself… a 6 or 7 oz. backpack is UL. A 2-pound-plus backpack is light, but not UL. A 1-2 lbs. tent for two is UL. A 3-4lbs tent is light, but not UL. And so on and so forth.

I am not being critical of REI. I think REI is doing a superb job focusing on the largest market segment — while giving a nod to lightening up on gear weight. But generally, its focus is not at all the same as the focus most of us have on this particular board.

Ben,

1. Well maybe it's time to get out and use said different pieces of gear that meet your various hiking needs and wants.

2. When did you say you only had cottage gear? "but why should we wreck our brains thinking up ways to bend backwards to order from the likes of REI — when we can get true UL gear direct from cottage gear makers who spend so much risk and time and effort servicing us, the UL crowd?"

Well, Rich, maybe getting out applies just as much to you too, no?

WHERE did I imply that I ONLY use UL gear? Chill your emotions, and re-read my earlier posts. I am all for matching the right gear to the tasks at hand (tasks as defined by each user) — and matching the right stores. I also wrote that choice is a good thing.

Don't know why you are suddenly all emotional about REI. REI caters to the mainstream backpackers — with a satisfaction guarantee that's second to none in the business. But this formula will backfire if REI were to fully jump into UL gear that require an altogether different mindframe in terms of use and care. Notice that REI doesn't stock Western Mountaineering bags? Or Nunatak quilts? Or 5oz. cuben fiber or all-silnylon backpacks? There are good reasons for this. REI does not cater to ULers.

Ok…as for getting out. Could you please check my posts. You will see gaps of DAYS between posts. Now check yours. You will see gaps of you went to sleep for the night. And if you really want to go there with the whole get out more thing…I just happened to spend almost 3 months living in my piece of junk North Face tent this past spring. And tomorrow, I am riding my bike 60 miles one way from Denver to Estes Park to go hang out in the RMNP backcoutry until Sunday evening. And then it's another 60 miles by bike home. Would you like the number to the office to check and see if I really have my backcountry permit? Oh and the weekend after this one, I'll be spending yet another 4 days climbing on Longs Peak. I'm guessing you will be here, trying to get that post count up to 10,000.

You always do this? Pick a fight, lose, than get all emotional and personal… crying that the other guy needs to "go out and hike"? How about just sticking to the issue at hand?

As for how much or how little you or anyone else hikes — frankly, I don't really care. I enjoy my hikes, and that's all that matters.

You posted elsewhere that people are "ruining" backpacking. I think your problem is that you are way too easily influenced by what others say or do. Learn to hike your own hike — and chill — bud.

This is reminding me of a Whiteblaze thread.

How did I lose said fight? I just pulled out facts. I don't understand what you are saying. If I was influenced by what others say, I'd have a gear closet full of SMD, GG, Z pack, ULA, and Tarptent crap.

It's easy to go UL when you're only gone for 2 hours man.

And the issues at hand…people CAN get UL gear at REI. You don't need cottage gear that caters to UL people to be UL. You were the one who said why waste brain cells on trying to figure out if you can put together a UL gear list from REI.

People were actually trying to figure the REI thing out and you had to come along and say it was a waste of time.

I stand by what I wrote. Feel free to differ. But the personal attacks that you started have no place here.

You don't have to play. If you don't want to contribute to this thread you don't have to.

Last I checked a common understanding is that UL means a base weight of under 10lbs. The topic of the thread speaks for itself. Is it possible to have a base weight of under 10lbs with gear obtained from REI? Yes, yes it is. The point of this thread is to create a resource for new backpackers and allow them to start off ultra light instead of learning the hard way.

Is it the "best" way? That is always arguable. But would you agree that a backpacker starting out with the gear I mentioned in my opening post 'better off' in terms of weight carried than one being sold "typical" gear?

Again, if you don't want to play, don't… but please stop with your elitist remarks.

So now, it's "elitist remarks"? Why so?

Let's get a few points straight here.

1. No one here is saying that UL is best. I've taken pains to emphasize different gear for different tasks at hand!

2. But since YOUR FOCUS is on UL — to limit oneself only to REI is just nonsensical. Why on earth would you (or anyone else) want to limit your UL gear purchase to a store that emphasizes traditional style backpacking — with limited selection of lightweight gear pieces?

Case in point…just during this month, there are 10+ posts about selling a Tarptent. And they all say the same thing: I bought it a year ago and it's only been used on one 3 days trip. $46465828 shipped.

But since YOUR FOCUS is on UL — to limit oneself only to REI is just nonsensical. Why on earth would you (or anyone else) want to limit your UL gear purchase to a store that emphasizes traditional style backpacking — with limited selection of lightweight gear pieces?

BECAUSE some of us don't want to spend $350 and wait 10 weeks for a piece of gear that we're just going to sell on GS after spending one night in the backyard.

Ben…pick a weekend during August. I will fly to Southern Cal, we can meet up and go get lost in the woods for a few days. Friendly test of cottage gear vs. I don't give a crap who makes it gear. Loser buys a twelve pack while the winner gets the fire going so we can burn the losers gear. The more cuben and silnylon, the smaller the fire will have to be.

Rich:

If you do a search on tarptents… you will likely find that I am one of only a small handful of people who will routinely post both the advantages — and the limitations — of certain UL gear pieces — like single wall tarptents!

It's a shame that so many people tout the UL weight of tarptents (or frameless packs, UL quilts, etc., etc.) — and then just stop — conveniently silent on their limitations! This does a real disservice to folks unfamiliar with UL gear.

My contention about this particular thread isn't about UL gear per se. Not at all. It's that IMHO, if a person has made up his or her mind to buy UL gear — then limiting his or her shopping to just REI makes little sense to me.

"But since YOUR FOCUS is on UL — to limit oneself only to REI is just nonsensical. Why on earth would you (or anyone else) want to limit your UL gear purchase to a store that emphasizes traditional style backpacking — with limited selection of lightweight gear pieces?

BECAUSE some of us don't want to spend $350 and wait 10 weeks for a piece of gear that we're just going to sell on GS after spending one night in the backyard."

That's justification for casting a wider net — NOT for limiting your shopping to just REI, no?

To Nick, Jamie, and others who posted their REI-only gear lists,

Thank you. Very interesting. I am a huge fan of REI, and was recently looking for a monocular. I know the ATN Golden-eye, was a hot UL item, but I preferred REI's Brunton ECHO.

I'm waiting for the mods to come and clean this up.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thread%20crapping

"v. Thread crapping occurs when a person comes into a thread and posts something contrary to the spirit/intent of the thread, often derailing the discussion or turning it into an argument.
Coming into a thread titled "I love my new Apple Macintosh!", and posting "PCs are better and cheaper" is thread crapping."

Although contrary as well, I would like to see someone go UL from (drumroll)… an Army/Navy store! :)

> I'm waiting for the mods to come and clean this up.

Ah no – we are lazy, and would far prefer you guys keep it all polite and tidy in the first place.

Something about nests …

Cheers

"Although contrary as well, I would like to see someone go UL from (drumroll)… an Army/Navy store! :)"

Funny you should mention…
I started into this UL stuff way back in the early 1980's. On my first trip, I figured out that my cook set was too heavy. On my second trip, I figured out that my tiny cook set was still too heavy. So, for the third trip, I purchased an item at an army surplus store. It was an aluminum water ladle that weighed 2 oz. and had a volume of 16 fluid oz. When I went, all I had for cook gear was the ladle, a plastic cup, a spoon, and a cigarette lighter to start a small wood fire. No water treatment in camp, except for boiling the creek water in the ladle. When I broke camp, I could just hang the ladle from a string on the back of my pack (because it was a little sooty). Ahh, those were the days!

–B.G.–

"Coming into a thread titled "I love my new Apple Macintosh!", and posting "PCs are better and cheaper" is thread crapping."

Wrong again, Alex. Your thread isn't "I love my new Apple Macintosh!". It's more like this:

OP: "Hey I love my new Apple Macintosh and let's all come up with a list of PC programs that can run on my new Apple Macintosh". This way, newbies can shop accordingly.

Ben: You have an Apple. Better to shop programs made for Apple.

OP: You elitist thread crapper, you!!!

REI is still a co-op and was very much a cottage organization when it started. It did things right in the right place and grew. You can find a lot of old Seattle folk who shake their heads about the ruination of REI over the decades.

I shop at the Seattle "flagship" store and it is an amazing place. Hehehe– I took Rod Lawlor there when he was visiting Seattle and he took photos! He didn't faint, but he did look a little woozy for the first 15 minutes or so ;)

The customer service is excellent. I consider it to be part of the premium for the prices. If you go to the "gear garage" where they sell returned gear, the tags give the reason for the return. There were a pair of 15 year old Vasque Sundowner boots that the owner returned because they didn't fit anymore!

What do I buy there? It's great for supply items like Micro Pur tablets, dehydrated dinners, specialty first aid, great windproof matches, etc. I bought my GoLite Peak pack there, some titanium items, shoes, socks, gloves, hats, belt, compass, maps, books, Nalgene bottles, Versa links. Their clearance sales are legendary.

Should they stock more UL gear? Probably. A lot of people shop there for bikes, car camping, skiing, travel. climbing, kayaking, and just plain fashion too, so a lot of floor space goes to non-hiking gear.

With all the hiking and outdoor pursuits in the Seattle area, there is *one* store that is oriented to UL equipment and it is tiny. There are a mere handful of independent "mom-pop" outdoor equipment stores in the whole region, most of those catering to the "hook and bullet" side of the industry; the others have some UL gear (and growing), but not much more of a percentage than REI.

Yes Virginia, UL is a niche market, especially at the level practiced here. We're freaks— nice freaks, but outside the bell curve for sure :)

"Although contrary as well, I would like to see someone go UL from (drumroll)… an Army/Navy store! :)"

What – haven't you ever seen camo Dri Ducks?

I don't know about it now, but some years ago REI had a list of "gotta have" items. Each store had to have some in stock, no questions asked. I don't know if they still have that policy. The items included things that you might be shopping for at the last minute before a trip, such as:

*Nalgene water bottle
*White gas stove fuel
*Butane blend stove fuel
*Headlamp
*Tent
*Sleeping bag
*Backpacker stove
*Freeze dried food

–B.G.–

I thought the REI "flagship" store was here in Denver? Even though the one in Boulder is bigger and seems to have more stuff.