Granite Gear Virga – Frameless King of Comfort?

No comments?

Hi Jeff, I will comment on #1. The Virga was my first frameless pack, since then I used a golite ion, golite jam2, MLD prophet, a MYOG Jardine Pack like you, and a MYOG pack of my own design.

My base weights have ranged from 4.5 lbs to 8 lbs across these packs. I typically run light on food at 20 oz/day carrying 3.4 days at most, usually only 2.5 days and 1 liter of water.

So what is my conclusion? I have actually found all of these to be fairly comfortable without hip belt and without sternum strap. Like you I really like the Virga shoulder straps. I think they are best of the group. I also think that when going without a hip belt having good shoulder straps more important.

Unlike you though I found success with the Jardine pack. I questioned the placement…the strap attachment points look too far apart. The shoulder straps are also extremely thick, I think he uses 1/2" foam which is thicker than most. Is it as comfortable as the Virga…I'd say no, but close enoough for me that I would probably stick with it at 9.5 oz over a stock virga. FYI, I bought a size large kit.

If I had to pick a pack that worked least it would be the Ion. Now I love my ion, but did find that when loaded with gear and 3 liter of water it felt like it was pulling my shoulders a bit. I wouldnt want to hike all day with the pack loaded that heavily.

The MLD prophet though probably wins the comfort for weight battle. Its close to the Virga, but only weighs 10.5 oz. Mine is from the 1st gen that has the removeable waist strap. I have removed the waist strap, sternum strap, and bungee system.

The Jam2 is as comfortable as the prophet but weighs in at 16.75 oz. I have permanently removed the Jam's hip belt, sternum strap, and hydration sleeve. The older Jam2 is a good choice, cant comment on the new heavier Jam.

So you can see all these packs have been used in a similar fashion to your Virga. No belt, no sternum strap with similar loads. I also packed all about the same way…roll up a 3/8" GG thinlight and drop it in, unravel a bit, and pack gear in the tube. What is a bit different is I never carry 20 lbs in any of these packs at a given time. It is typically 10-12 pounds loaded with food, fuel, and water and 16 pounds max for a short time. I typically cover 20+ miles in a day.

Unless you want to be anal like I am (not sure its a good thing), I'd say stick with the Virga. It will be hard to beat. If you want to lower the weight consider cutting down the extension collar (I did this), cut off the hip belt, removing the lower compression straps and trim the long remaining straps. You can probably get the pack down close to 16 oz.

If you want to venture out, try a MLD pack or possibly a ULA CDT pack (I have not used this one).

Jamie

Hi Jamie. Thanks for your insights. I suspect you are probably right about the Virga being tough to beat from a frameless load carrying stand point, but I can't seem to help myself. There is always a point of diminishing returns, but the temptation to try something that falls between the weight a Virga and Ray-Way pack is strong. :) The MLD pack looks interesting and I have spent a fair bit of time window shopping at ULA and SMD. I would love to have the opportunity try before I buy.

So which of the packs that you mentioned are you using as your go to pack?

As for the Ray-way pack I am probably being picky about it. I have done several trips with it over the years and it has served me just fine. Just not the most comfortable on the shoulders and sometimes a bit lacking in the volume department depending on food requirements. That being said after my most recent trip I removed the stock foam from the shoulder pads and replaced it with a much softer 3/8 inch foam cut from a walmart sleeping pad. This has improved the way the shoulder straps contour as I always found the 1/2 foam provided to be quite rigid. Still I can sense that the pack wants to pull away from my back placing a fair bit of pressure on the anterior aspect of my shoulders.

All of the Granite Gear Virga users must be out hiking. ;)

Jeff, I am currently using a pack of my own design. But if I had to pick a pack that represented my go to pack it would be the MLD Prophet. It is super tough, light weight, comfortable, is nicely sized, and has the right number of pockets for me.

I'm trying to develop a pack that I like over the prophet. Its hard to do. That being said both the Golite Jam2 (old version) and the Virga are close runner ups. For the weight I think the Jardine Pack has it merits too. I agree the foam in Ray's shoulder straps is too stiff. Nice call to replace it with 3/8" foam.

I sold my Virga to a friend I occasionally backpack with. Not because I didn't like it. I sold it because it was a great pack. I'm slowly getting him outfitted with lightweight gear. He has had no problems doing over nighters with me using the Virga. I also noticed he does not use the waist belt.

Here is a picture that gives an impression of how the prophet rides.

And one of the ray-way

And the Virga

And the Jam2

Jamie

Love my Virga. Tried the Ion, Jam2, Conduit, Ohm (not frameless), and Zpacks Zilch and have come back to the Virga. Nothing provided the same combination of light weight and comfort for me so I finally gave up looking.

I had durability issues with my Virga and found the waist belt not sufficient. The load lifters are essentially useless as load lifters although they are necessary on the Virga to pull the load against your back.

Switching to the ULA Conduit made me very happy. Much better durability, lighter, more features and the fit was better (personal).

The Virga was a great pack in 2004. But there are better choices out there for most.

David: Interesting to hear about the durability issues. What failed on the pack? Mine has held up well so far. Actually I had an interesting experience with it. I was on a trip where I took my pack off to scramble up a short distance to the top of a peak. The pack was fully loaded and I was careless about where I set it down. On my way down from the peak the wind started to really pick up and in the distance, to my surprise, it actually blew my pack hard enough that it started to roll down a gradual downhill which lead to a scree slope. There was no way I could get there in time so I watched the pack roll down the scree slope about 80 to 100 meters. It just kept rolling and rolling and rolling. I was sure it would have major damage, but when I finally caught up with it there was only one small hole the size of a pencil eraser

Is the ULA Conduit the same as the CDT? Is it your primary 3 season pack? Do you feel the load is distributed evenly by the shoulder straps. I am a little wary now of getting something like my ray-way pack that pulled away from my back and put most of the pressure on the anterior surface of my shoulders.

Thanks.

Jamie

Thanks for all of the pictures. When trying to develop a pack that you prefer to the prophet what specifically are you trying to improve upon?

Thanks

Brad

What do you think was the difference for you in terms of comfort that keeps you coming back to the Virga? Was it the shoulder straps?

Thanks.

Jeff, Its really not the prophet itself, but rather the top loading, drawcord, roll top, with top buckles strap that most ultralight packs use. The ray-way pack, MLD packs, ULA, golite mostly all work the same way up top. I'm trying to improve this. The virga is slightly different by have 2 crossing straps instead of one. I think the virga provides the best top compression, but the extension collar is painfully long.

to close the pack…

1 – push stuff down into pack
2 – pull the drawcord and lock it, closing the bag
3 – roll the extra extension collar down
4 – find the top strap and buckle it
5 – cinch down the top strap

too many steps to get something out of the pack and back into pack

Jamie

I think it's a combination of the shoulder straps and that the Granite Gear regular torso seems to fit me perfectly. I prefer to use a hipbelt even with light loads. On the other packs I tried, the hipbelt never seemed to be in the right spot. So no knock to the other packs I mentioned, just a personal comfort thing for me.

I purchased my Virga used and modified. The collar and straps had been shortened saving ~ 4 oz. No problems with durability but I've only had it out about 20 nights/300 miles over the last year and a half.