Had some gear issues – Aloksak, Caldera-H

I recall an article on BPL about silnylon dry bags, but couldn't find it.

There are bags that are water resistant and will keep things dry in your relatively dry backpack, and then there are ones that will keep things dry after being fully immersed. The fabric and seal are what it is all about. In general, a roll top bag needs three rolls to keep water out in an immersion. Heavier coated fabrics are more waterproof than silnylon. The dry bags I used for sea kayaking were quite heavy. After the seal has been perfected, its all about the water pressure a particular fabric can withstand.

IMHO, there's no free lunch. I use a trash compactor bag with critical items like insulation and sleeping bag in roll-top silnylon bags inside the trash bag.

I haven't been impressed with Aloksacks. The seal just doesn't feel very positive and I wouldn't trust them to expensive toys like cameras. Using them in conjunction with another bag like the AMK first aid kits seems to work. I don't think they can be "stuffed" — it needs to be a fairly loose pack.

Dale, I believe the article you remember on silnylon dry bags is rather out of date. I bought several Sea-to-Summit Ultra-Sil dry bags in the summer of 2008 (before I joined BPL). Having read the reviews of these bags on Jim Wood's excellent site, I was very dubious. His pictures showed lots of water leaking through pores in these bags, but I thought I'd try them and see. I later read BPL's review, I believe from 2006 (EDIT–it was 2005), and noticed they had the same results.

With this background, I certainly wasn't going to use these dry bags without testing them first! I tested the three bags I bought using Jim Wood's method: turning the sacks inside out, filling them with water, closing the bags and hanging them over my bathtub. After 15 minutes, there was no evidence whatsoever of leakage. I have repeated this testing every year, because I want to make sure my sleeping bag and insulating clothing stay dry. Still no leaks. The label says that these bags are not designed for prolonged Immersion, but they are obviously OK for the 15 minutes at which I tested them. They also had an inadvertent practical test in the field. I slipped and fell during a rather hairy stream ford. When I emptied my pack, the bottom (where my sleeping bag was) had several inches of water in it, but the sleeping bag inside its Sea-to-Summit dry bag was completely dry!

My conclusions: (1) Evidently Sea-to-Summit improved their Ultra-Sil
dry bags in response to the above reviews, a wonderful instance of response to adverse reviews. (2) Don't trust anything used for as critical a purpose as keeping your insulation dry without testing it yourself! (3) Reviews that are several years old when you read them may be out of date, because the manufacturer may have changed the product. The change, of course, can go either way–for better (like Sea-to-Summit Ultra-Sil bags) or for worse (like Montrail Hardrocks).

I ordered a couple of Cuben fiber dry bags from Mountain Laurel Designs and will report on how well they work. They are certainly a lot lighter than the silnylon!

I've had troubles with the Aloksak Odor Proof bags' closure, too. The bags are heavier this year (the largest size gained almost a quarter ounce), but I haven't yet used the new ones in the field. However, they do appear to keep odors from going through, if you can keep them closed. This is especially important with my dog's food–the odor of that goes right through the normal Glad or Ziploc freezer bag! I have to use the OP sacks to keep my dog's pack from radiating the odor of dog food!

I've found that all these zipper-lock type bags easily pop open under pressure, especially if the contents are squishy. I used to put my extra socks in plastic zip-lock bags but found that the closure kept popping open when I shoved them down into nooks and crannies in my pack!

Brian:

I sent you a PM about the Keg-H…..please contact me directly and we'll get you fixed up.

Rand

there is only one true drybag: Watershed bags. See drybags.com. I've seen people wrap boats in violent rapids for hours and the bags stayed completely dry despite being immersed and torn at by the current.

Everything else is just a splash bag. Anything roll top, by definition, cannot be water tight, because there's no seal, just two layers of fabric next to each other.

Obviously watershed bags won't meet any definition of UL, but for those times you truly need waterproof storage, they are the only way to go. Otherwise, you're left with the redundancy system of lining a rolltop bag with a plastic bag and hoping for the best, or other tricks that should suffice for most casual backpacking uses.

It all depends on what you're going to do with the dry bags! If you're going down the river in a raft, you want something that will stay dry when submerged for hours. If you're only worried about falling in the creek or heavy rain running down your back and soaking into your pack, then your standards don't need to be quite as stringent, and passing a 15 minute submersion test should be ample.

Either way, I'd test the bags at home first!

…

I researched Opsaks a few months ago and ended up buying some for bear bagging.Somewhere along the way I saw a reference by Watchful Eye, the manufacturer that they recommended the use of Clip'n seals to keep the bags closed. I ended up getting some at Amazon. The Clip'n seals weigh a bit but they improve upon the Ziploc style closure by a large amount . I think the bag material would fail before these seals would . I ended up getting ones that will seal a 12.5 inch bag, the exact width of my Opsaks, but they can be cut down too..If you want to improve your seal, this is a way to go. Here's a link.
http://www.amazon.com/Clip-n-Seal-Bag-Clips-Large-pack/dp/B0007D6KEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1278967564&sr=8-1

"Here's a link."

This sounds like it's worth a try. I hate those funky zip loc seals on the OP sacks.

Thanks for the link, John!

Yeah funky is the polite way to describe those standard Ziploc closures. GDMNIT is more like it. With the Clip'n seal you can attach it below that Ziploc closure and effectively double the closures. The Clip'n seal is nice and tight. I'm going to try it on some turkey roasting bags and some silnylon dry bags and see if it helps there too. Might be better than the usual twist on a compactor bag too.

I tested all 4 bags tonight in water, just as it says in the directions that came with them. 3 of the 4 failed what I would consider a good test. I put some air in them and then manipulated the bags as if they were being bounced around inside a pack. 3 of the 4 seams broke loose. The smallest sack stayed sealed. Interestingly this is the one that failed last on my trip. I'll be sending these back to Loksak for them to inspect. It would seem that they are waterproof as long as they are not bounced around too much. Not very useful for backpacking.

I think everybody who has used these pretty much agrees with your findings. The hang up is on the Opsaks given their supposed ability to mask food smells. They have a monopoly on the product and the testing of both products looks old and subject to doubt. For your use -electronics there are things out there like Pelican and other hard cases and similar heavy vinyl bags. All useful but only to certain failure points. I'm trying to reverse engineer the Opsak back to a point of functionality because I live in bear country and am not in the zones of hardcases like the Garcia's or other bear vaults. Look back at my posts for other thoughts on beefing up the plastic as well.

Most roll-top dry bags are 100% waterproof. I've used & tested, for example, the Sea to Summit Ultrasil dry, Lightweight Nylon dry, & Big River dry… none of them have leaked at all. They haven't leaked on trips, including days of rain on canoe trips. They haven't leaked when loaded w/dry paper or cotton, weighted, and submerged in a tub for 6+ hours. When I used OR dry sacks I had the same experiences.

I feel like I must be the odd man out – the only time I've had issue with the Aloksaks used in my Ursack is when I overfill them. Even then 95% of the time it doesn't seem to come undone.

I think my test was a little more severe than what you mentioned. Mine were both submerged and being moved around inside my pack. I was alternating between swimming with the pack on and scrambling over the rocks. I believe the Aloksak is fine when not being bounced around. However, the continual movement when hiking is enough to work the seal loose or completely open.

Same with the roll top bags. I'ved used it to try and keep stuff dry when doing water hikes and also when surfing. It was not 100% waterproof in either case. However, I think it makes an excellent 1st layer which can be backed up by a good ziploc.

Mine leaked almost immediately too. I chucked it after its third trip. Not sure what it is about that lid design but it doesnt create a good seal.

I used the bags for a month section on the AT. I found the easy way to not pop the seal was to not overload them. Make sure the contents only take up 2/3rds of the bag. I then sealed them as directed and folded the top of the bag down and against the side of the bag. Wedged them in or put them in a sack. I never experienced the bags popping open. At the end of the month, I had one bag fail at the ziploc part, one side of the ziploc came off the bag. Considering this was the bag I was using for snacks, I say it was opened about 4 to 5 times a day, over a month <50 times. Not bad in my book.

The top on Aloksaks(and especially ziplocks) and many other containers will open if you don't squeeze most of the air out before sealing.

This is not true of hard shell containers.
The small aloksaks work OK for electronic, but be carefull to burp them fully before closing.

Even a totally airtight container can have dampness inside. If you open the container in humid heat, condensation will occur when the temperature drops at night.
I always use desiccant in my food bags and electronics for this reason. Dehydrated ingredients can go bad quickly and electronics can oxidize if they get damp from condensation.

Most anything else can tolerate some dampness, if you can stand the mildew smell:-)