Patagonia Houdini vs. Montane Featherlite

Matt,

I own both windshirts. The primary advantage of the Houdini is that the fabric has been manufactured using the Epic process. Patagonia calls it Deluge for marketing differentiation. For long trips where you don't have frequent access to non-detergent soap, DWR, and a 140F temperature dryer to replenish the DWR, the Houdini is the better product. The DWR is good for the life of the product.

The Montane Featherlite fits better if you have an athletic or slender build. Additionally the double layer hood is warmer than the hood on the Houdini. If your trips are typically short enough so that you can periodically replenish the DWR at home, then the DWR durability will not be an issue. They both average about 5 cfm air flow, which is the threshold above which the average person can detect air movement from the wind. In other words breathability is optimal for both windshirts.

I didn't think that the featherlite had a hood? I was going to recommend the Houdini based on that fact, but if the feathelite has a hood, I'll defer to the above :)

I would second Richard's observations about the fabrics use.

I would disagree with Richard on the Featherlite having a hood. Well, at least mine didn't have a hood. Sounds like Richard is describing the Lightspeed. The featherlite I had was hoodless and had a 1/3 – 1/2 deep neck zip. The houdini has a hood and a full length zipper which I found more versatile. The zipper on the featherlite also was easy to snag. You really needed to use both hands when zipping.

–mark

My experience with these wind shirts is the Houdini has so-so water repellency and I didn’t care for the loose fit and the full length zipper. The Featerlite was a better fit again so-so water repellency no issues with the 1/3 zipper. The lightspeed had a better fit the hood was a plus and decent water repellency no issues with the zipper.

The most important factor to me was the fit I Backpack the southwest and rain isn’t that much an issue, wind and insect protection is.

My 2cents… your mileage may very

I'd agree w/ the assessment the Houdini is not a "athletic" fit, I was torn between a large (which I wear in 90%+ of the cases) and a XL so it would fit decently over a insulating layer. I went w/ the large and it was perfect for me as I'm a little on the husky side and it still fits nicely over my insulating layer.

I can't imagine my windshirt w/o a hood, I use the hood quit often and would miss it dearly.

I'd rate the Houdini a little better than so so on precip protection- far from a rain jacket no question, but I've been quite impressed w/ the DWR finish on mine- from light rain to snow (and even occasionally short duration heavier rain) it's done really well.

the Montane certainly has a nice price point, I haven't tried one but some good reviews on the Marmot Ion as well

Thanks for the feedback guys! You have been very helpful. I've decided against the Featherlite due to the lack of a hood. I'm trying to decide between the Houdini and a Montane Lite-Speed.

Richard, I'm a little confused about the DWR differences. If I got a Lite-Speed would I have to retreat it periodically to maintain the water resistance? Somehow the Houdini has a permanent DWR treatment?

Mike, why would you want to wear thick insulating layers under a windshirt? In colder weather wouldn't you just put on a down jacket that is also windproof? The reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to decide whether it would be best for a windshirt to fit snuggly or loosly. Your thoughts?

I've found that in cold and/or windy conditions at camp- that a windshirt over my down jacket really boost the warmth factor

on some really cold nights the windshirt even was drafted into duty as part of my sleep system

if it's not my most versatile piece of equipment, it's really close :)

"Mike, why would you want to wear thick insulating layers under a windshirt? In colder weather wouldn't you just put on a down jacket that is also windproof?"

Layering insulating layers under a windshirt works really well for hanging around camp, and also as part of your sleep system. Often you can get along with thinner/lighter insulating layers if you use them in combination with a windshirt, and may also allow you to carry a lighter, less warm sleeping bag.

Matt,

I love to layer my windshirt over a vest or jacket for added warmth. To ilustrate the added warmth, put on the lightest windbreaker or Driducks you have in the house – you'll notice the added warmth immediately.

The Driducks serves this purpose, but I can fit two other people in there with me, since it's HUGE

Todd!

I have a 2007 Houdini and love it. I just bought my wife a Lite-Speed. The Montane is extremely well made with finish superior to the Patagonia. It is also significantly heavier and less expensive. I haven't been able to compare the DWR and breathability.

The current model of Houdini does not have any way to stow the hood. The Lite-speed hood fits very neatly in the collar. My old Houdini has this feature and I find it very useful. The Lite-speed has a better designed pocket than any Dragonfly/Houdini model; vertical zippered chest pocket and quite large.

Based on apparent quality, price and hood design I will replace my Houdini with a Lite-speed if/when my Houdini wears out. Lite-speed is currently on sale at Backcountry.com.

Matt,

The above posters were correct regarding Montane windshirt models… sorry for confusing the Montane windshirt models. I own the Houdini and the Lite Speed windshirts which both have hoods.

The Nextec Epic process was originally developed in combination with Patagonia. The Nextec process is applicable to a wide range of fabric types and porosity levels. The Houdini version uses nylon and 5 cfm porosity. The EPIC windshirts used by the US Special Forces are designed for more waterproofness and less breathability; they have about 1 cfm of air flow and handle moderate rain fine. 5 cfm is the optimal porosity for breathability but it is not a replacement for a poncho or rain jacket in sustained rain. The Nextec Epic process provides a DWR that is good for the life of the fabric.

Mike is correct in his recommendation to wear you insulation layer under a properly sized windshirt. You get additional insulation for 0 weight.

I recommend sizing windshirts and hard shells for an average girth difference of between 5 and 7.5 cm larger than the layer normally worn under it. Under no wind, the thermal insulation reaches a maximum when the air gap is about 1 cm thick, corresponding to a difference of 7.5 cm in girth between the garment and the body. Under windy conditions, the thermal insulation reaches a maximum when the air gap is about 0.6 cm thick, corresponding to a difference of 5 cm in girth between the garment and the body. You can pick up an average of approximately .6 – 1 clo extra insulation using this approach. In addition you better protect your insulation layer from forced convection losses (wind). The recommendation to wear a shell of some type over your insulating layer applies equally well for a windshirt, Dri-Ducks, or a hard shell.

Thanks for all the great comments! I just ordered a Lite-Speed from Back Country for $60. The price made the difference for me. I can't wait to try it out.