need in increase calorie intake

"BAsed on that….how many calories do you think we would be burning??"

Dan,

According to the caloriesperhour.com algorithm for a 155# person hiking uphill with a pack weighing 21-40# you will burn 562 calories/hour. Multiply by number of hours you plan to hike/day to get a rough approximation of your daily calorie requirement. I assumed a pack weight of 21-40# based on the length of your trip making it unlikely you would be carrying less than 21#. My sense is that this is a minimum if you are going off trail, probably on talus part of the time, in the Sierra. I've done a lot of that down through the years and it is strenuous going at times. To do 10 miles/day would probably require at least 5 hours, given you will be carrying a heavier pack to begin with, for a calorie requirement of ~2800. If you have body fat to spare, it could supply part of that requirement, but remember you are going to have to spread it across 16 days.
If you carry 2300 calories/day, as Ben recommends, you should be prepared to make up a daily deficit of ~562 calories from body fat, which works out to ~9000 calories, or just under 3# of body fat. My personal experience during 4 trips of 15-17 days in the Sierra, on trail and off, all of which I lost significant weight on and once dangerously so, is that 2800 calories is well on the low side, especially for off trail travel with a heavy pack. I'd carry a minimum of 3000 calories/day just to be on the safe side and avoid the distinct possibility of having to come out early or end up feeling like s&!t 10 days or so into your trip. With a bit of care you can get 3000 calories down to 21 oz. I usually go in with 2800 @20 oz, so I know it can be done. That would give you a total food weight of 21# and some peace of mind in the bargain.

BTW, caloriesperhour.com is well worth spending some time on. They have a lot of information about these kinds of questions, including calorie content of various foods and other nutritional data. Another source well worth reading is Kevin Sawchuck's post on food in his writeup of his and Dave Chenault's experience on the Parcour de Wild last fall. You can locate it by using the BPL search function, and the food post is toward the end of the thread.

I hope this helps and, whatever you decide, I wish you all success.

"I don't claim that my experience on 3-day trips is valid for longer trips."

Then why are you making strong recommendations for longer trips based on your 3 day trips?

"I'm simply claiming that there are half a dozen uncontrolled variables here (trip length being one of them), and since you can't account for them, you're just spinning your wheels by trying to calculate things theoretically."

I'm not trying to calculate things solely based on theory. I have stated clearly a couple of times that the theory closely approximates my own experience on trips of that duration, supported by two other highly experienced sources here on BPL. All you have to offer by way of disagreement is your unsupported statement that you require 2000 calories, or less, on your 2-3 day trips. You admit yourself that there is no way to determine that outside of a controlled laboratory environment. In an earlier post I said that it would be illuminating were you to calculate either your BMR or RMR, subtract it from that 2000 calorie figure you use for your daily calorie requirement on 2-3 day trips, and then make the case that the remainder would be adequate for a day of backpacking. Care to take me up on that? And then further make the case for recommending that another 300 calories/day would be adequate to support a 155# guy carrying a pack probably in the high 20#-low 30# range on a 16 day trip with significant off trail sections?

Why are the calories stored on the body as fat not even in these calculations?
Are we to believe that the body only uses calories consumed that day and at that meal until its used up and then your "out of gas" so to speak? What is the purpose of stored fat in this theoretical world?

Tom wrote: "Then why are you making strong recommendations for longer trips based on your 3 day trips?"

I've looked back over my posts in this thread, and I don't think I ever made any strong recommendations.

[EDIT] Oh, I see. I think you misinterpreted my post, or maybe I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't saying that 2100 cal/day + 11% would be adequate for him. I was stating that as a number below which it would definitely *not* be adequate. Take a look back at where I wrote "On the high end, I hear people talking about figures like 5000 cal/day." What I'm saying there is that the minimum adequate figure might be 5000 cal/day.

"Why are the calories stored on the body as fat not even in these calculations?"

Brian,

I addressed the issue of stored body fat at length in a couple of posts on the first page of this thread and succinctly a few posts up on this page. It's not a theoretical world we are discussing, BTW. I have used a couple of algorithms to buttress a point I have been trying to make based on personal experience in the real world, but there is nothing theoretical(abstract?) about the question Dan asked in his OP or the reply I gave him grounded in my own experience and the experience of others whom I have referenced. Stored body fat played a major role in the strategy employed by Dr. J et al in planning their diet for the Arctic1000, with good reason. Kevin Sawchuck also makes reference to it in his Parcour de Wild report.

"I think you misinterpreted my post, or maybe I didn't make myself clear."

Fair enough, Ben. Point acknowledged. Anyhow, I think we've beat this dog nigh unto death. I'm about out of gas. 'Night all.

I find this whole conversation fascinating because I really have struggled being able to eat on my Sierra trips regardless of what I ate. But, I have also paid the price by losing almost 15lb on my 10 day JMT trip and about 10 lb. on my SHR trip over 7 days and 100+ miles. I also hit the wall many times going over the hordes of passes on the SHR. I suspect that my carb consumption was way off and my body was relying on fat for energy. But at the higher elavations, +12k, I didn't have the oxygen to allow enough energy to be burned by fat alone. So:
1) Based on my experience you would have considerable weight lose with 2k/day. I also am 6'2" 190lb.
2) I would have performance issues with 2000 cal/day. (I hiked the same terrain as you are doing on the SHR trip.) And ten miles a day is not trivial off trail.
3) You likely won't be able to replace all the calories burned in a given day, that is what fat reserves are for. And anyone who says they don't have any fat reserves is plain wrong.

I have started doing 1500 calories over a five hour prime hiking period 5x300cal. I have done this on several long hikes (30-50 miles with 8-11k elevation gain.) This is extra beyond normal meals. If I were doing the trip described in the post I would employ a similiar strategy.

Hey all, I just hiked the JMT and tried my best to consume 4000cal/day and I still lost about 8 pounds over the 11 day hike.

One thing I did TRY and eat was olive oil.. but man it gave me diahreah (sp?) really bad, and that's no joke at 12k feet in blowing wind at 2am.

Anyway, everyone here is talking olive oil, how do you keep from getting the runs?

-Russ (Satchel)

It helps to train yourself on olive oil at home before you ever start your trip, and you can find out how much your body tolerates. Also, it is good to cook foods that blend well with the olive oil. If you don't, then the olive oil may just pass straight through.

For example, I cook a mixture of f.d. vegetables, instant rice, instant quinoa, and couscous in a dab of olive oil and a surplus of water.

–B.G.–

One reason people get constipated while hiking is often they don't have enough oil in their diet (or that is ANY type of fat). Go the other way and yeah, you will have issues. Oil is like TVP – you have to build up a tolerance over time. For a week long trip I wouldn't consume a lot more than you would at home – it is more of an issue if you are out for a month or longer. And by a couple weeks in your stomach should level out – but – I'd ask..how much were you consuming though? A Tablespoon or so per meal is plenty for most meal!

I wonder if you are actually getting the calories from olive oil or just passing them through? Only real way to test would be to check the caloric value of your waste and compare it to your intake, although that's pretty unrealistic.

In any event I noticed an upset stomach when I ate about 2 tbsp/night and one night I had about 4 tbsp and that was it…

-Russ

I've found butter is easier to add and tolerate at higher quantities. Only works well if it's not super hot, though.

I usually take ghee (clarified butter), but am beginning to get a bit sick of it. The good thing is that it doesn't need to be refrigerated.