JMT Hike by Boy Scout

[Daniel Kopisch]

My dad and I share equipment and share the load. I put things on the list he will carry, to make sure we won't forget anything that is essential. I marked the things he is carrying in Yellow and didn't add them to my total weight. So throwing out the Wenk or the SteriPen will not bring down my overall weight, since I didn't count it in the total. We are both carrying a bear canister.

[Manfred]

All,

my son got me now intrigued with his talk about light weight. Since I will be with him on the JMT this year and at Philmont next year, I'm now also looking into lightening my load.
Right now I carry an Osprey Aether 70. It serves me very well and makes it easy for me to carry larger loads. It allows me to put the Bearikade Expedition in it and still have room for the tent, my sleeping bag and other gear.
What kind of UL backpack can fit a Bearikade Expedition? I very much appreciate your input.

Manfred

[Ben Crowell]

"What kind of UL backpack can fit a Bearikade Expedition?"
I suspect that the Expedition would fit, vertically, in almost any full-size ultralight backpack. The more important issues would be: (1) Would you have enough space left inside for the other gear you're taking? (2) Would the total contents of the pack weigh more than the pack can handle structurally? (3) Would your pack weight of 44 lb feel comfortable with the kind of shoulder straps and hip band that you get in an ultralight pack? (4) Would a frameless pack work well for your task?

Here is an example of a gear list for the JMT (mine) that is well adapted to an ultralight pack: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=33701 But I don't think it's going to work well if you try to pack an ultraheavy gear list in an ultralight pack.

On the other hand, you might find that there are packs that might work well for you that fall somewhere in the middle of that huge gap between mine (16 oz) and the Kelty that Daniel is currently using (77 oz).

[Luke Schmidt]

In a test run I fit a bear canister into my Golite Jam vertically (that is about a 3300 cubic inch pack). I think I would have had room for my gear. For mid weight packs I heighly recommend the Gregory Z55 and the newer Z65 might be a good bet if you want more volume. Since Daniel seems to like his external frame Kelty you might check if it could be modified or if there is a similar but lighter external frame out there. My brother found a 2 pound exterrnal frame and says it carries up to 50 pounds just fine. Good luck.

[Manfred]

Thank you for your replies. I'm right now just looking at my own gear :)
While Daniel insists in his Kelty, I'm willing to experiment. But he is an invincible 15 year old who is also immortal — did anyone say "teenager"? — I'm an old guy who has to watch out for his joints.
My Osprey weighs 74 oz. As the Assistant Scoutmaster for Hiking, Camping, etc. I have done my fair share of 10 and 20 milers with it and I know that it is up for the task. I'm comfortable with what I carry and know I can do 10+ miles every day with it in high altitude. Nevertheless I'm open to the idea of UL and will most likely introduce some of its concepts to our troop for our Philmont trip next year.
Once Daniel gets the scale he ordered, I will put together my list and publish it too. I just became a premium member of this forum and was amazed by the depth of knowledge and all the advice. Based on your advice and what I read in the articles I already switched my heavy inflatable Therm-a-rest for a 3/4 RidgeRest and my REI Halo 25 sleeping bag for a WM Summerlite. Just changing the sleeping system saved me 41 oz. I made the same change to my hydration system as Daniel which saves another 5 oz (+32 oz water). So I will already carry over 4 lbs less. Between now and July 24 I would like to experiment with a UL backpack to see how it handles what I intend to carry. Does anyone know stores in the SF Bay Area that carry them? Do you have preferences for certain models? Why?

Thanks,

Manfred

[Nick Gatel]

For trul UL packs, you need to go with the cottage manufacturers. The exception is GoLite, which I have seen at REI. Can't speak for any of the models. Some Websites you might want to check out:

Gossamer Gear
Mountain Laurel Designs
ULA Equipment
Six Moons Design

Keep in mind that these companies usually do not stock these packs, and there is a waiting time. Gossamer Gear and ULA usually have most models in stock. ULA tends to have more durable and weight carrying products. GG is my favorite brand for packs.

Also here is a great journal that Kevin Yang shared here on BPL and while back.

http://kevin-yang.com/travel/john-muir-trail-journal

I think his base weight was under 15lbs. Easy to get it even lower, but you don't want to cut back too much on a first long trip like this.

[Bob Gross]

There are not many stores around the SF Bay Area that stock UL backpacks. The market is thin, so the mainstream stores like REI don't have much.

Your backpack weighs 4 lb 10 oz. Wow!I haven't used a backpack that heavy in over ten years. Mostly I use ones that are 21 oz, 12 oz, or 7 oz empty.

Those can be comfortable, but it typically prompts you to reduce your overall load, which is a good thing.

–B.G.–

[Ben Crowell]

For ultralight, I would concur with Nick's suggestion of Gossamer Gear: http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/pack_matrix.html Their biggest pack is the G4, which is what I have, and I've been happy with it. But the maximum recommended load for that pack is 30 lb, which is still 14 lb lower than we're seeing for Daniel's latest revised pack weight. Daniel's gear list is, IMO, not compatible with any GG pack, or probably any ultralight pack.

Manfred, I totally understand what you mean about wanting to go easy on the joints. I'm 44. When I was 18, I could run, hike, etc., without any concern other than my muscles and my aerobic fitness. In the intervening years, I've had shin splints and plantar fasciitis, both of which took 4-5 years to recover from. Switching to a lightweight style is a huge win for people who are no longer quite so young. If you want to switch to a lightweight style, the first thing I think you need to do is reduce the amount of food you're bringing and switch from the Bearikade Expedition to something smaller. The amount of food you're talking about bringing (20 lb) is almost triple what I expect to eat between MTR and Whitney Portal. (I weigh 140 lb. If you're a big guy, you'll need more.)

[Manfred]

Ben,

Thank you for the link. I looked on this site into the Gossamer G4 and the GoLite Jam and Pinnacle. It's very intriguing to try one of these.
Although I know Daniel can cover more miles in a day and by doing that we would drastically reduce our need for food, I would like to stick with his plan. It gives us plenty of time to fish and enjoy the area. It will be a while before we go back there (our oldest daughter is already asking whether I would hike the JMT with her too in couple of years) and we really want to enjoy the scenery. There is no need to rush.
So I think we will stick with the Bearikade Expedition. We will certainly look into how much food to carry per day and should be able to get it down to 1.5 lbs or even less. That would save at least 5 lbs from the max load. Daniel weighs around 150 lbs and I weigh 190 lbs (at 6'1").
Does anyone have experience with taking a Bearikade Expedition in/on a G4 or Jam or Pinnacle?

Manfred

[Dan Stanko]

My buddy carries a Garcia in a Pinnacle horizontal but the Bearicade is longer so verticle would be OK.Overall he's around 35 fully loaded and does OK.

I have a Golite Quest and you would have to go verticle as I can just maybe fit the Garcia horizontal at the bottom if I try.I trimmed my quest about 5 ozs and like the fuller internal frame to carry around 25 lbs for 5 days(I'm 140 lbs).

[Jason Lande]

Manfred, you can also check out Sports Basement for the Golite packs (Jam, Pinnacle); the REI on Brannan in SOMA/SF also has the Granite Gear Vapor Lite in stock. Oh, and check out the REI Flash 50 & Flash 65 packs.

[Dan Stanko]

Would be interested if anyone here has tried a bear can in a Jam……Seems to me the shape would make it a tight fit and then gear yet on top of that?

Even more so for the true cylinder shape of the Bearikade with it's sharper edges at the lid and bottom.

Your gear list is similar to the ones me and my friend are using(he brings more creature comforts and I a bit less and fewer clothes,hence I'm a bit lighter)….and at 4300 inches(medium) I have room to spare….but a Jam at 3050? That seems real small.I can do one without the can,but not with,theres just not enough volume YMMV

[Joe Clement]

I'd look at the GG Mariposa Plus over the G4, and cut your volume some. I have to admire any adult who can still sleep on a Ridgerest. I have to go to a POE Ether Thermo 6 years ago.

I'd look at ULA packs too. They weigh more, but they take overloading better than a lot of the others. I'd say more durable too.

[Hiking Malto]

I have hiked with he large Bearvault in both a Jam or Pinnacle. They are roughly the same size as the bearakide so it is possible. However, I also have a carefully folded Ridgerest that provides a "frame." I think you would definitely want this to carry the weight comfortably. The concern is that the pack will become rounded and not feel right on your back. There is an easy way to tell with a given pack. Take your Bearikade and if you have your foam pad and sleeping bag and try it out in the store. If you don't have the foam pad yet I have both the ridgerest and ridgerest deluxe pad. I can given you the dimensions and you can simulate it using something of the same dimension like newspapers.

[Joe Cangelosi]

I have the Jam2 and am about to do my first canister trip.

Did you put it on top or on the bottom? Or somewhere in between?

[Nick Gatel]

"Although I know Daniel can cover more miles in a day and by doing that we would drastically reduce our need for food, I would like to stick with his plan."

Excellent! It is his hike, and it looks like he is doing all the planning. Sounds like you have one great kid there.

Also, before you know it, he will be grown and on his own. Take your time, and enjoy the trip together.

[Hiking Malto]

I place the sleeping pad flat against my back (or in a U with my Ridgerest deluxe) My sleeping bag, tarp and bivy goes in the bottom. The canister goes in with the lid up. (Sometimes I can get into the canister without taking it out the pack.) Then the rest of the gear goes on top.

[W I S N E R !]

May I suggest keeping your tarp and bivy separate from your sleeping bag and at the top of your pack?
Having to unpack your entire load to get to your tarp in the rain is no good. Neither is sticking a wet tarp in the bottom of a pack with your bag.

[Luke Schmidt]

I'm seeing a lot a discussion of fitting a Bear Canister in a Jam or Pinnacle. I have used a Jam and for a long time I used a Golite Trek which is basically an earlier version of the Pinnacle. I would make two suggestions to those looking at either,

1. I love frameless packs but comfort depends on your ability to pack it properly. Personally I do not like to carry more than 25 pounds total in a frameless pack. If you can keep it below that level and know how to pack gear go for it, if not there are some excellent lightweight internal frame packs that are better for your needs.

2. I have not carried a bear canister in either pack but I did try putting one in at an REI. It can be done but you will have to pack it carefully or the canister will cause problems. Personally if I was going to carry a canister I might be inclined to go with an internal frame pack.

[W I S N E R !]

A canister in a Jam is no problem. I have both the small and large Bearvaults.

I use a pad as a frame, put my bag and clothes in a liner bag in the bottom, then slide the canister in no problem. With the large canister, not much room is left at this point though- just enough for a few soft goods and a shallow cookpot on top of it. Don't expect to get anything tucked around the sides of canister either- it's a perfect fit, no space left. I've carried 9 days/almost 30 pounds like this and was fine.

[James Wiley]

Manfred,

The ULA Equipment packs can be seen and tested at DownWorks in Santa Cruz. I used a GG pack last year with reasonable success, but planning the big ULA Equipment pack this year.

– Jim (Woodland)

[Daniel Kopisch]

Ok. I finally got around to putting the list for food together (between working in my summer job as life guard at our public pool and designing 53 signs for my Eagle Scout project and getting bids for them).
I reduced my food load by 2.5 lbs to 17.5 lbs for 10 days. You can find my list on my website http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com
Just go to "Hiking the JMT" and then "Food".
In my gear list you will see that I'm now down to carrying 20 lbs of gear in my pack + 5.5 lbs of cloth, trekking poles, etc. on my body + 22.5 lbs of food & water for a maximum of 48 lbs. Before Muir Trail Ranch I will never carry more then 10 lbs of food & water. So most of the time I will have less than 30 lbs on my back.

[Daniel Kopisch]

In the past I just looked up the weights as specified by the manufacturer. Sometimes I was surprised by the difference. Did my boots really collect that much dirt — or how did they get so much heavier?

Anyhow – you can find the revised list on my website under "Hiking the JMT" and "Gear List".

Now I have three weeks left to reconsider some of my choices.

[Nick Gatel]

Daniel,

Having less than 30lbs on your back most of the time is reasonable, and you are not doing super high mileage. We have all analyzed the weight of your heaviest items, which you really want to keep for various reasons. And that is fine.

This is going to be an epic hike for you, and one you remember for the rest of your life. And doing it with your dad is going to add to the memories. Just hike it and enjoy it. Concentrate on the sounds, sights, and smells. Bond with your father.

And of course, you "owe" us a complete trip report with pictures for all the opinions :)

[Daniel Kopisch]

Thank you everyone for giving me tips and encouraging me in general. This weekend we will finally start on our hike. The whole family is totally excited. Our resupply buckets are shipped to Red's Meadow and MTR and today we received our bearikades in the mail. So now we can do our last little bit of packing and we are ready to go. All the excitement in our family has caught up with my twin brother, who is now coming along for the whole JMT. I don't know who is happier, my dad or me. In the meantime we got a SPOT and you can follow us on the internet, if you go on my website to Track my Progress and click on "location data".
Starting Saturday the SPOT should send an update every 10 minutes and you will be able to compare our progress with my hiking plan that is also on my webpage.

[Author]

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