I need some tent advice

So, your predicament isn't unusual. In very heavy rain with lots of condensation, the inside of tarptents can be drafty or wet. *shrugs* Though, that doesn't mean you should go straight to a very heavy shelter like the Seedhouse SL1!

There's a few options for double wall: Terra nova laser comp or photon or the Big Agnes fly creek are all lighter than the SL1. So is the new SMD Haven and net tent.

Also, you can try a tarp shelter with a breathable bivy inside it. This essentially mimics a double wall if you guy the bivy above your head, creating dead air space. I used to use a Golite Hut 1 and a Tigoat Bivy and it was as dry as a double wall shelter, but a lot lighter. Any condensation that dripped didn't get through my bivy space, so I was fine.

There's also the possibility you can just suck it up and realize that occasionally you'll have bad nights but most of them won't be and things dry out….

I have no idea about the snake smell but that's disgusting.

I just picked up the moment and am hoping it will serve me well. I think its important to always guy out your tent so wind's as you described shouldn't be an issue when guyed out. Also when using the secondary pole it seems to gain much more stability. The condensation is something that raises concern. Examining mine I see that apart from the two vents at the top of the tent there are another two rollback flaps that open at each end. If winds are blowing I think having your vents opened, or the body lifted off the ground somewhat to provide more ventilation could rectify the issue. I haven't had a lot of time to play with my moment (It came in the mail yesterday) but I can see there are myriad options in hooks and ties that would allow you to fine tune many aspects of the tent until you got what you wanted. I like the tent because it seems to understand that there is no single perfect setup and so counts on you to tweak your shelter to get what you need. For the rotting smell you can… Cut out the fabric and resew some silnylon in its place. You can try one of those enzyme soaps used to clean up organic wastes, or you can just really let it air out and get sun.

try a product called "anti icky poo"

after that, if needed, leave the floor sunyside up for a day or two

after that, if needed, burn ritualistically

I am currently looking for my first UL tent, and have been worried about running into the same problems that you described.

The two tents that I am currently considering are the Tarp Tent Scarp, and Vaude Power Lizard.

Both offer full coverage double wall protection, and appear to be able to ride out a storm pretty well.

how much would a tyvek sheet weigh as an inside spray deflector? still lighter all total (by a lot i'd think) than a 2-wall tent

Nate: I have considered the BA Fly Creek but it is $$$ compared to the $180 SL1. To clarify, I intend to keep the Moment because it is soooo cool but am interested in the SL1 for car and airplane camping along with being a backup to the Moment if conditions are going to be nasty.

One of the places I will be camping is Cape Hatteras, NC so a slightly more bomb proof shelter that is somewhat free standing is a must.

Sean: I would still highly recommend the Tarptent Moment for average use. We just experienced some unusual conditions that were not expected. I did have all the vents open on the Moment after the storm passed but it did not help too much. On regular humid nights with no rain I did not have any serious issues with condensation. If a light breeze of only a few mph is flowing, the tent seemed to do well with only light condensation.

Cutting the rotten smell parts out of the other tent are not an option. The groundsheet and floor reek horrible. I will consider the enzyme soap though.

Thanks for the tips!

Heheh…Of course Cary knows about this product. =)

Thank God I have concrete floors, or else I'd be searching for it now no doubt.

"So, your predicament isn't unusual. In very heavy rain with lots of condensation, the inside of tarptents can be drafty or wet. *shrugs* Though, that doesn't mean you should go straight to a very heavy shelter like the Seedhouse SL1!"

Very heavy? It weighs 6oz more than the Moment. You can mention the potential for 13 stakes but then I would argue it won't move at all in the wind with all of those(!).

In any event, the OP needs a double walled shelter. He doesn't like the condensation and a DW shelter will help manage it better.

I too have had issues with condensation with my Moment. I am trying to figure it out. Even guyed out with side guylines it is not as stable as the Hilleberg Akto I have used despite having similar designs. Again, I need more time with the Moment to figure out exactly why but I believe it had to do with the single guyouts at the ends of the Moment verses the dual ones on the Akto. The Akto also sets up much tauter (sp?) which might be a reason why as well.

The answer is in your own post

"On one night, we had unexpected winds estimated at 20mph+ with a few gusts at probably 40mph or more"

Kind of a freak storm- unusual. Most of the time these storms won't be happening, so no prob. If it collapsed, my thought is that the stakes weren't holding their ground. (I made a funny) Bigger stakes to hold those bad boys in. And guy it out… I don't know what the MPH rating is on a Moment is, but I bet 40 is up there, but again- unusual for TN

As for the condensation… welcome to single wall tents in the south! Carry a packtowel and wipe down your tent walls. Ventilate ventilate ventilate- humidity calls for as much venting as possible. If you end up with condensation ALL the time- maybe time for a Rainbow? (Bigtime vents)

EDIT- read your 2nd post- coastal regions are windy- maybe another tent would be better due to more staking points. Ure is right, too- a double wall is gonna beat a single in the condensation race every time

Wow, people post fast on here!

Cary: I did try using one of those emergency space blankets but that caused me to sweat pretty bad and thus contributed to the condensation level horribly on one occasion. Tyvek may have the same result.

As far as the stinky tent, it weighs like 6lbs and I figured the Seedhouse SL1 would be it's replacement anyway. It would be hard to justify burning it as a sacrifice but I did consider it : )

David: The 6oz weight difference of the SL1 and Moment did catch my eye for sure. Having all the guys would be nice in coastal winds.

Jeff: We were in Cades Cove and it was a freak windstorm, the Weather Radio did not even mention it.

"Wow, people post fast on here!"

We live for this. and personally, I don't have much of a life except for befriending avatars :(

I find myself reading more than posting. Sometimes I am so addicted I have to force myself not to be on this site for a couple of weeks or I would never go outside.

Edit again: The main reason the stinky tent is so bad is because the snake that died was a Garter snake. They sometimes secrete a stinky white goo substance as a self defense mechanism. That stinky white goo is the same smell that has ruined the tent. Who knows, it may have sprayed it out when I got in the tent for the night and rolled on top of it!

Condensation
Before you jump to the usual conclusion that all double wall are better, read very carefully the Ray Estrella review of the TN Laser.
Keep in mind that Ray has tested more tents than most.

The simplest most efficient way to reduce condensation is ventilation.
Did you have one or both of the end vents open ?
How about the top vents ?

I never had a TT drip on me when windy , but I have had mist as you describe from tree drops. That has been always a few sprays not enough to penetrate my WM bags.
BTW, at times I have wiped the fly up to three or four times a night,typically once or twice before going to sleep , pee brake and the "what time is it?" bit, that is why I have a cloth next to me .

As you discovered side guylines are very important in windy conditions. This should be made clearer on the TT site.
I think that Henry got used to the fact that most of his earlier customers already knew how to use tents.

Also for this shape to perform well you do need to have a good amount of tension at the ends. If you put the tent up and do not put it again in tension when the fabric relaxes (once it is wet and or cold) it will wobble .

Franco

Franco: I did open up the top and end vents after the rain. The misting did eventually soak through the foot area of my WM bag. Wiping down the walls would have helped but we were in bear country and the microtowel was in my pack away from the tent. Next time I will try using it to soak up excess moisture.

I will agree that a double wall tent does not solve all condensation issues but it can help. As much as I would like it to though, I do not know if the Moment would hold up as well with 4 guy lines in pounding coastal winds.

"Very heavy? It weighs 6oz more than the Moment. You can mention the potential for 13 stakes but then I would argue it won't move at all in the wind with all of those(!)."

I stand corrected.

Get the double wall and be happy. Though a fabric inner would be warmer than a net inner. Free-standing is also nice if you're doing beach camping.

Even guyed out with side guylines it is not as stable as the Hilleberg Akto I have used despite having similar designs. Again, I need more time with the Moment to figure out exactly why but I believe it had to do with the single guyouts at the ends of the Moment verses the dual ones on the Akto.

I agree with David and his reason for why the Akto is more stable. Perhaps the Akto should be compared with the Scarp1, rather than the Moment, though. The Akto essentially has, if you pare away the extra fabric outside the lines from the ridge pole to each end guyline, four lines of tension each pulling away from the other at a different angle. The Moment only has two. Even if you were to tension the ends of the Moment with extra guylines, the apex of the inverted-V poles would still provide only one point of tension. So naturally the tent will flex more; you have to have at least 3 points in tension in order for the oscillation of that two point line to be offset. The only way to further stabilize the Moment is to add guylines to the pole ridge line. However, the Akto will always be more stable because of its greater number of guying points more widely spaced tension points.

That being said, the Moment, with proper guying, should be very stable. There is no reason it shouldn't be able to withstand some strong wind.

Hi Ryan

> My Tarptent Moment has concerned me though
Can I suggest that the problem may lie with how you did not guy it out? The design should take a lot more than 20 mph!

The condensation issue is another matter however. You need a slight breeze and good ventilation to handle those nights. Not camping UNDER a tree is also a good idea – both to avoid the big drops, and to avoid falling branches.

Sandy areas? Long sticks instead of ordinary stakes.

Cheers

"Before you jump to the usual conclusion that all double wall are better, read very carefully the Ray Estrella review of the TN Laser."

Franco – I found condensation could be an issue with the Akto inside the inner as well. I should have clarified that a double walled shelter with a mesh inner is generally easier to manage condensation with.

Miguel – absolutely – the Akto competes with the Scarp. It was my only source of reference in terms of use.

Roger is right (as usual). Recently I using the Moment in a coastal climate where I would be camping directly on the sand, I used 8" easton pegs and had no issue with pegs coming out.

I would argue, now that I have slept on it, that you do deserve to give the Moment another chance. I am still learning what this shelter is capable of and it will take some more use to see.

Once you have tried EVERYTHING else and are ready to throw it away, try washing with bleach. Just use it at normal washing strength. It worked for cat spray.

The world of enzyme based products with some reviews and links to alternative products. Good luck.

Have you tried oxi clean? it has worked for me on all kinds of OLD funky animal smells from being left in the basement too long. for a tent I would put a full scoop (supplied) into a bathtub half full of cold water and let it sit for half a day periodically agitating it, then set it up and hose it off. hope you can save the tent:)

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I do plan on keeping the Moment as it is a great design. As for coastal areas, I have some long v-stakes that should work ok.

I have not had a chance to wash the other tent again but will give the oxy-clean a try. That might do the trick. Clorox will be a last resort if all else fails.