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Using a Markill adapter to use PowerMax fuel with non-PowerMax stoves

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PostedJun 5, 2006 at 1:01 pm

In a perfect world, all backpacking stoves could use Coleman’s PowerMax fuel canisters (cartridges). These aluminum canisters have the best ratio of canister weight to fuel. Compare, for example, MSR’s IsoPro fuel in the 113 gram size, where the metal canister equals 50.0% of the full canister gross weight, versus Coleman’s PowerMax 300 canister (which allegdely contains 11.1 ounces of fuel), where the metal canister equals only 19.9% of the full canister gross weight. There is also PowerMax 170, which contains 6.0 ounces of fuel, and has a corresponding ratio of 26.8%. PowerMax canisters contain 60% butane and 40% propane in liquefied form, and have a tube inside which extends towards the bottom for drawing out the mixture in liquid form. PowerMax is intended to work only with Coleman’s Xtreme, Xpert and 2 burner Xpedition stoves. These stoves incorporate proprietary hardware which changes the liquefied gas to a gaseous vapor for combustion. Compared to most stoves which use ordinary butane/propane canisters, the PowerMax design allows the stove to perform in subfreezing weather without a performance degradation due to the drop in vapor pressure inside the canister.

Can PowerMax canisters be used with ordinary canister stoves? An intriguing bit of information at the Zen Stoves Website at http://zenstoves.net/Canister.htm#CanisterAdapters hints that this may be possible. “Markill [now Vaude] makes an adapter for the Campingaz CV line that may also work with the PowerMax canisters. Just beware that if you use the PowerMax canister, fuel will come out in liquid form, which may be dangerous depending on your stove.” Vaude’s “Adapter für Ventilkartuschen,” weighs 75 gram (2.6 ounces) and was (and may still be ) known as model number 92497. It also allows CampinGaz CV 270 and CV 470 cartridges to work with any stove which uses the EN 417 Type 2 standard cartridges.

There are several issues here, though. The first is whether the adapter can safely attach in a leak-proof way onto the PowerMax. The second is whether it will work with any stove which has a pre-heating tube or functional equivalent. The pre-heating tube is a metal tube in which the pressurized liquid fuel flows inside. The tube is arranged to go through the stove’s flame, so the heat changes the fuel flowing inside from a liquid state to a vapor state. At least two non-PowerMax stoves with pre-heating tubes have been successfully converted for use with the PowerMax cartridges:

MSR Wind Pro stove modified to use Coleman Powermax fuel cartridges
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=1756&disable_pagination=1

MSR Rapid Fire stove modified to use Coleman Powermax fuel cartridges
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/xdpy/forum_thread/1702/index.html

Could PowerMax canisters be used with Coleman’s new Fyrestorm stove, which uses ordinary, but inverted butane//canisters so that the fuel is drawn out in liquid form? Bill Fornshell, I believe, seemed to think this could be done, but only if the hardware from a PowerMax stove which used to change the fuel from a liquid to a vapor were added. Could the Markill adapter also be used with a Primus OmniFuel to burn PowerMax fuel? I am not sure if the OmniFuel has a conventional pre-heating tube arrangement, but it has the functional equivalent.

And finally, what about the danger of lighting the stove? Presumably, when the fuel first comes out of the jet, it is in liquid form, because it has not yet been heated to a vapor in pre-heating tube. Is this problem overcome by simply being very conservative about opening the valve? How did the modification of the Rapid Fire and the Wind Pro handle this problem?

In view of the fact that Coleman has said PowerMax fuel will continue to be sold notwithstanding rumors of its demise, and the fact that the empties can be easily punctured with a tool and recycled, this fuel offers backpackers an advantage in weight and performance and safety (compared to gasoline stoves) which is unmatched.

Rick Dreher BPL Member
PostedJun 5, 2006 at 2:13 pm

That’s a slew of questions!

I’ll take my shot at a couple, then step aside for the experts to weigh in.

re. the Fyrestorm, there is at present no Max adapter and I’d be surprised if there ever were one marketed, as it’s likely to remain a low-volume item. The burner certainly *could* burn Max fuel without any magic tricks, as it’s got a generator tube. An adapter could probably be fashioned from Coleman bits–you’d need a canister connector complete with a fuel valve and a threaded connector to the Fyrestorm burner’s fuel line. In theory, such a gizmo could be quite a bit lighter than the Fyrestorm’s Lindal canister inverter.

The Fyrestorm’s canister inverter certainly does the trick. In that mode the stove is a very strong performer, and wrings the last drop of fuel from each cartridge as well. White gas performance is steady, if not as high-performance as the cartridge mode, and it’s a little tricky for me to light and warm up.

Roger Caffin BPL Member
PostedJun 5, 2006 at 3:00 pm

> Can PowerMax canisters be used with ordinary canister stoves?
* This can be done in principle IF and ONLY IF the stove has a preheat tube to vaporise the liquid gas.
* Doing this with any other (‘upright’) stove would create a fireball. DO NOT DO THIS!
* But in practice, for the obvious safety reasons, the PowerMax canister has a unique connction which is not compatible with any other stoves.
* The PowermMax canister is NOT compatible with the Markhill adapter which fits the French CampinGazx stoves either. The spigot in the middle is a different size. (Yes, I have tested this.)

> Just beware that if you use the PowerMax canister, fuel will come out in liquid form, which may be dangerous depending on your stove.”
* Deadly would be a better description in the absence of a proper preheat tube.

> MSR Wind Pro stove modified to use Coleman Powermax fuel cartridges
* Indeed, but Bill F knows what he is doing, and the WindPro does have a preheat tube. You might be surprised at how hard it can be to get a complete seal on some of the home-made connections, and it only takes a very small flame leaking out to create trouble.

Safety preaching over – yes, fuel is fuel, and you can hook canister X to stove Y, IF you know what you are doing and provided the stove has a preheat tube. But please, be DAMN CAREFUL! And TEST the result thoroughly!

And be aware that the Coleman Xtreme stoves are a lot more sophisticated inside than you might think. The heat exchange mechanisms they have in place are very effective, but invisible from the outside. Tricky stuff … from one who knows!

Bill Fornshell BPL Member
PostedJun 5, 2006 at 4:34 pm

I don’t see this Markill adapter working on the PowerMax canister.

Gear Meister,

Not the same thing as going from a non PowerMax stove to a PowerMax stove. All that thing lets you do is use a standard canister with your Xtreme stove.

The easy way to adapt the PowerMax control valve to any other stove is with a fitting change on the PowerMax gas line.

PostedJun 5, 2006 at 5:32 pm

“The easy way to adapt the PowerMax control valve to any other stove is with a fitting change on the PowerMax gas line” – Bill Fornshell

So, to modify a Coleman Fyrestorm or a Primus OmniFuel to use a PowerMax cartridge, which parts in the numbered diagram depicting a PowerMax stove at the link below should be ordered from Coleman? Thank you.
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/images/explosions//9710-701.gif

Bill Fornshell BPL Member
PostedJun 5, 2006 at 7:39 pm

Hey Roger, Didn’t see your post. How are you doing way “down under”?

To wildyorkie:
============
The facts of life according to Coleman:
1 – don’t modify our stuff.
2 – we don’t sell parts to people who are going to use them in a way not designed by Coleman. [The parts you need are #8 with the brass rod (not shown), #6e, 6d, 6c, and 9 (if you want the wire stand). You might get by with an On-Line order.]
3 – we will ask you your name so we can get our lawyers after you.
4 – we know who you are and we saw what you did.
=========
It is very unlikely you will get Coleman to sell you the parts you need. If you have a Coleman Outlet Store near you ask when the Xtreme might be on sale? Or just buy an Xtreme and use the necessary parts.
=========
You still need to modify the stoves you want to adapt to the PowerMax canister.

Having said all the above I don’t see why you want to do this.

The Fyrestorm is designed to burn liquid or the (70/30) canister gas. This should burn well down to a low temp as I am sure that is why it was made.

I have a NOVA that looks like the Primus. I can burn canister gas or liquid with the NOVA but the stove is really heavy. I was going to adapt it to burn the PowerMax canister but decided I didn’t need it.

Instead I made a Wood Stove that will adapt to the Xtreme Burner Head and PowerMax canister. I can burn wood or I can burn the PowerMax gas.

PostedJun 5, 2006 at 10:35 pm

“The PowermMax canister is NOT compatible with the Markhill adapter which fits the French CampinGazx stoves either. The spigot in the middle is a different size. (Yes, I have tested this.)” – Roger Caffin

“Having said all the above I don’t see why you want to do this.” – Bill Fornshell

Many thanks for the thoughtful, informative replies. My original premise was flawed and uninformed, to wit: that by simply using the Markill (now Vaude) adapter, I could save a few ounces by using it to connect a PowerMax cartridge to my Primus OmniFuel stove, or possibly a new Coleman Fyrestorm stove. However, upon reading the comments above, I am disinclined from attemtping to modify my stove.

PostedJun 6, 2006 at 9:12 pm

Bill I can’t find this post in the forums. What keywords should I search for?

I’d love to see this thing.

Thanks,
Brian

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