Pairing Air Pad and Blue Foam

Door Number 2.

Thanks, Greg.

Anybody else care to comment?

I don't have a short, but I have a 3/4. My ankles hang off, so I put my pack under. Works well.

I recall reading that Chris Wallace (correct me if im wrong) felt that the drop off was enough to give him lower back pains

*correction,memory was slightly off…it was bad knee pains. Not bad for a post made over 1 month ago!

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=30514

Ben, are you having sellers remorse about the neoair?

I feel the effect of drop off from my T-rest prolite 3 shorty to my chunk of z-rest that I use to make up the length so I can have a full lenght pad when it starts getting chilly. I feel this drop off and it doesn't really bother me. Before it starts getting chilly I usually leave the chunk o' z-rest at home and the drop off of my prolite 3 shorty is quite agitating unless I try to compensate by shimming my legs up with something. I will be so bold as to guarantee that you will not only notice a 2" drop but that it will bother you unless you do something to shim up your lower legs a bit.

Thank you for your insights, gentlemen.

>Thank you for your insights, gentlemen.

"Gentlemen?" You presume too much.

It doesn't really matter that much if the edges of the pad are not hard. Anyhow, I usually put my shirt and trousers at the end to add to the insulation from the 5 mm foam mat.

Cheers

Roger so you are saying it doesn't matter and it doesn't bother you at all but that you pile clothes under your legs anyway. Sounds to me like you are compensating for the drop off under the guise of keeping your legs warm, no? Nothing wrong with doing both I would suppose. You seem to be saying the dropoff doesn't matter in one breath but that you pile stuff under you legs anyways in the next breath.

I guess I am just curious if you have slept with any regularity on a pad with a 2" drop without shimming up your legs? Just curious. If you do you would be the first guy I talked to who is comfortable doing this. I am just sort of amazed if this is the case.

Anyone out there who honestly doesn't mind a two inch drop and does nothing to compensate for it? Just curious about this. I have had extensive conversations about this with a goodly amount of hikers and everbody compensated for a drop off of 2 inches in some fashion or another for reasons of comfort. Plenty of guys ignored slight drops but all the guys with the short poofy mats had some trick up their sleeve to increase their comfort. Warmth was not the issue that came up but rather comfort was what perpetually surfaced during my unscientific query of dropoff and shimming.

I used my NEO short last year and experienced an unexpected benefit of the drop off effect. I'd been experimenting with site selection to avoid water runoff/pooling issues, and found that the drop off enabled me to tolerate more of a slope. Sleep with feet up hill and with pack under heels. A two for one solution.

Hi Jeffrey

I have a 50 mm (2") thick Therm-a-rest Deluxe LE mat for winter trips. I used to use it on summer trips too, but have since gone lighter (25 mm). I am currently field testing another air mat which is 65 mm (2.5") thick. All these are 3/4 length. Actually, for 'I' read we – my wife and myself.

I normally stick a 5 mm blue foam pad at the foot of the mats, for 2 reasons. One is thermal insulation from the ground, and the other is to protect the groundsheet (and me) from little lumpy things on the ground. Yes, a thin foam mat on top of the silnylon groundsheet does tend to protect it from spikes.

If all my clothes are wet they sit outside the bucket groundsheet, in the foyer, on top of my joggers. In that case I have nothing left to put at the foot of the air mat. No problems. In the snow the 5 mm foam is not really enough, so I put my ski pants there, but very much as thermal insulation.

I suspect that with some mats the edge is soft enough that there simply isn't a big drop-off. I had better add that I do not inflate my air mats hard – doing so tends to be rather uncomfortable in itself.

Also, I think I automatically arrange my legs so that the drop-off does not cause a problem – I pull my knees up a bit (side sleeper) so only my toes hang over the edge, or I arrange my legs joints so the drop-off doesn't matter. Either way, I sleep very well thank you. My wife says I snore sometimes … so she nudges me …

Cheers

we use short neoairs or in winter exped7 mats. We use a bit of 6mm foam for sitmats and our feet. We need a place for our rucksacks in our small tent so they go under the foam. That is good for insulation and it does take up some of the drop off. We have not tried it any other way and taking up the drop off was not what occurred to us. Like Roger I probably adapt my sleeping position to cope. Any way it is perfectly comfortable.
When forced to camp on snow when we only have the neoairs the foam goes under the neoairs with anything else we can find to boost the insulation. That just leaves lumpy rucksacks under our feet but the insulation is the main thing.

I have a knee that extends way futher back than is natural. Sleeping on our back is supposed to be the best way to sleep in order to keep your bones and joints in line. While on my back with a short pad, the two inch drop keeps my knee from overextending and causing me much more grief.

Even on my stomach, it allows me to keep a slight bend on my knees and allows them to recover quicker.

I like the drop.

Jack

I used this combo for a week at Big Bend in March. The blue foam is long enough to fit under the NeoAir completely plus enough for my feet. I use clothes or the BPL pillow under my head. My knees are not so great but I was very comfortable. I move a lot when sleeping, side back and stomach, still a great combo IMHO. I will try the GG 1/8" with pack and mat under feet at some point. I just picked up a Aarn Natural Espression which is a bit smaller than my Osprey Exos 34 so I will have to lose some volume.

Thanks Roger I was able to take two very important points from your last post.

#1 is that body positioning can help combat the effects of drop off should one find them bothersome.

#2 While I was already onto the idea of shimming for both reasons of comfort and insulation, a thin full length pad seems to be quite advantageous in helping achieve these goals since it would also provide puncture protection for the inflater. Your mention of ground sheet protection prompted this thougt. I guess I have only been unknowingly recognizing this benefit in winter. I will definitely keep this idea in mind since I enjoy going shelterless when the weather permits.

Thanks.

edit #3 Not fully inflating is also a good tip to help combat the drop off though it would seem R-value would be slightly compromised by not fully inflating. Is this correct?

Jack B. This advice was proferred by Ray Jardine and probably others too, "Sleep with your feet uphill: Counterintuitive, yes. Most of us search for flat ground to camp, and if we must sleep on a slope would rather have our head uphill. In potentially wet conditions, a slope may be the best place to camp since rain will not pool. By sleeping with your feet uphill, it prevents blood from pooling in the legs and restricting circulation, and it helps draw swelling from the lower extremities, improving recovery." I am glad it works for you. I have never been able to sleep with my feet facing uphill.

Jack N. Cool man I am glad the drop off helps you relieve any discomfort your medical condition would otherwise cause you!