Apr 27, 2010 at 6:21 pm #1258261
I have a Big Agnes bag and a POE Insulmat (now called Ether) pad, both sized long. However, I've noticed the pad isn't quite warm enough once it hits the 20's, so I'm looking for lightweight solutions warm to that range.
Is the z-lite warm to the 20's? What about pairing an Ether Elite or Clearview with a Thinlight pad? That would be lighter than the insulated air pads, but would it be as warm? Lastly I'm considering something like the Hyper Lite. I'm teaching myself to sleep on my back, but as a side sleeper I formerly found the air mattresses required.Apr 27, 2010 at 6:47 pm #1602942
Have you looked into the Stephenson's DAMs??Apr 27, 2010 at 6:51 pm #1602943
Thanks for the suggestion. That looks like it would be a good option, except it doesn't look like it would fit in my mummy shaped BA sleeping bag as it has a different shape. Even if it fit it wouldn't be a good fit that would seal off the edges.Apr 27, 2010 at 6:59 pm #1602945
Use a thinlight pad on your insulmat. And get a WM bag.Apr 27, 2010 at 7:09 pm #1602949
"Thanks for the suggestion. That looks like it would be a good option, except it doesn't look like it would fit in my mummy shaped BA sleeping bag as it has a different shape. Even if it fit it wouldn't be a good fit that would seal off the edges."
With a slight modification of adding a couple of velcro strips to the bag and mat, we keep our bags on the pad like this:
Photo is using a torso sized RidgeRest, but we also do this with our Stephenson's DAMs. It works with any size or shape mat:Apr 27, 2010 at 7:13 pm #1602950
Very interesting, I'll have to think about that (and maybe PM you). So I imagine you cut a slit down the middle of the pad holder on bottom of the bag and added the velcro?
Is the Ridge Rest warm into the 20's?
Again, does anyone know if the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core is actually warm to 15 degrees as claimed, or is it even colder than the POE Ether as I've heard?Apr 27, 2010 at 7:24 pm #1602960
Dry forest duff is good insulation by itself- especially with warm sunny days you probably wouldn't really need under-insulation.
Dense, icy snow is another story. You need good under-insulation whether overnight lows are 20 or 60.
Damp soil is in between. If days are warm maybe it's 50 degrees but it is a real heat sink.
In conclusion, it's not the overnight air temperature rather the ground temperature and thermal characteristics that dictate how much bottom insulation is needed.Apr 27, 2010 at 7:41 pm #1602967
"So I imagine you cut a slit down the middle of the pad holder on bottom of the bag and added the velcro?"
I'm not really familiar with the Big Agnes system, but if a mat is too big to fit in the sleeve, then yes, you would need to cut a slit to expand the sleeve and either add some extra fabric, or add velcro. We prefer the velcro because then we can mate our bags (WM PODs) to any size or shape mat, but either would work. The PODs had the same problem when they came out…they were designed to work with only one type of mat, and wasn't a a very flexible system due to this.
No, the RidgeRest would not be good down to 20F. That's when we use the DAMs, or you could just add another mat to your CCF to boost it's rating.Apr 27, 2010 at 8:01 pm #1602978
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern Minnesota
I too am a side sleeper. If I could "teach" myself to sleep on my back I would patent the process and sell it! (If you do now can I have a cut? ;-)
I have used the BA IAC down to 17 F but was cold. (I was in a Mountainsmith Cypher which was a 0F bag but under-filled on the bottom to save weight.) In a normal bag I am good on the BA to 20 F, in one of their bags I am only good to 25F max before feeling the cold.
Look at http://kookabay.com/. They make a very warm pad customed to fit your needs.
I just used this year's REI dividend to get a large NeoAir for quilting comfort and have had it down to 37 F on my one trip so far. I don't plan to see lower than 30 F with it as it is going to be a dedicated summer pad.Apr 27, 2010 at 9:12 pm #1603003
I don't know if I'll get there 100%, but it just involves making a conscious effort while going to sleep to lie on my back instead of my side. After falling asleep it's a little bit more difficult, but I find myself being on my back more often. I'm not there 100% yet though and doubt I will ever be.
Very helpful report on the pads, that's what I was wondering. I guess if the regular closed cell pads aren't warm to those temps maybe I'm expecting too much out of my insulated air mattresses? Perhaps a NeoAir and a Thinlight would be the ideal combination.Apr 27, 2010 at 10:55 pm #1603017
Any feedback on pairing a non-insulated pad (Clearview or Ether Elite or maybe NeoAir) with a ThinLight pad on top? It seems that if it were warmer than the actual insulated air mattresses (Ether 9 or Insulated Air Core) the companies would have done it, but I get the feeling that maybe it would work. I guess it also depends on the thickness (1/8", 1/4" or 3/8").Apr 27, 2010 at 11:10 pm #1603020
@bestbuilderLocale: Pacific Northwest
Eric, the BA Insulated Air Core isn't any good below 32*! froze at 24-28* and returned the pad.Apr 27, 2010 at 11:45 pm #1603023
@tallblokeLocale: DON'T LOOK DOWN!!
I've used my 60" Clearview with a cheap 3/8 CCF mat on top on top of cold damp ground. I was pleased with the combo's performance/price ratio. The weight was very reasonable too.
7oz for the CCF
11oz for the ClearviewApr 28, 2010 at 3:20 am #1603040
@knaightLocale: Western Massachusetts
I have a POE Ether Thermo 6 that's kept me nice and toasty in the low 20's all by itself. If you were to pair it with a thinlight pad or something similar, I think you'd find yourself in great shape. Sure, it's a bit of a heavy combination, but sometimes cold weather requires more weight.Apr 28, 2010 at 4:00 am #1603046
@brooklynkayakLocale: South West US
I lay a 3/8 closed cell foam pad on the ground, under my BA Insulated Air Core pad when I am going to be at near or below freezing ground. It makes a big difference.
I'd suspect a Z-Lite or RidgeRest would work as well, if not better.
Otherwise the pad will feel a bit cold.Apr 28, 2010 at 4:54 am #1603051
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
What about a Kooka Bay Mummy Down Filled Air Mat? It would be really warm and probably lighter than a Big Agnes?Apr 28, 2010 at 6:54 am #1603077
I don't see any mention of down filled air mattresses on their site, only uninsulated pads. Is that an option? Some specs would be nice.Apr 28, 2010 at 7:16 am #1603085
@rayestrellaLocale: Northern Minnesota
The down pads are not listed. Just email him. I have a custom down pad from him and it is great.Apr 28, 2010 at 7:30 am #1603087
@servingkoLocale: Intermountain West
I have a down filled Kookabay as well and really like it. He can make the pad to your dimensions to perfectly fit the pad pocket.Apr 28, 2010 at 8:53 am #1603114
+10 on the kookabay custom dam. For about the price and weight of a neo air you he can make a pad that will be twice as warm. The mat he made me is ~ 25"X46"X3.5", downfilled and weighs about 13ozs with pump sack.Apr 28, 2010 at 9:34 am #1603125
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
My Kooka Bay Down Air Mat is a copy of a Exped Downmat 7 72x20x2.5 with 6oz of down. The Exped has a R-value of 5.9 so the Kooka Bay should be similar. The Exped was 33.35oz with stuffsack while the Kooka Bay is 22.4 with a BA Pumphouse.Apr 29, 2010 at 5:33 pm #1603766
Kooka bay said he could make me a 72 x 20 x 2.5 inch 30 denier mummy pad with 6 oz of Down and it would come in around 15 oz or so. but it gets more expensive to use 30 denier and all that Down.
i am saving up for a 72 or 66" 30d pad with Climashield, I don't want ot have to carry around a pump and it should be 1 oz less for 4r instead of 6r. It doesn't get that cold in AZ.Apr 29, 2010 at 5:34 pm #1603767
Lynn, if thats not a BA bag, what bag is it with the sleeve?
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