Tarptent Scarp 1 vs Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 warmth

Couple of thoughts:

1. The biggest reason you find your DR cold when temps get below 40 is NOT so much the mesh — but the simple fact that you've got 360 open mesh!! The DR vestibule flaps don't come anywhere close to the ground.

2. Yes, solid fabric will help retain warmth more than an all-mesh fabric. But when you've got an inner tent with real bathtub floors that reach up 4 or 5 inches and a real fly that reaches down to just inches from the ground — you will feel surprisingly comfy with minimal draft even with an all-mesh inner! I speak from my experience using the Seedhouse 2 SL which has a lot more mesh than the Fly Creek UL. No problems even when temps are down to high 20's and winds are howling out there. For colder temps than that, I think I would want a solid-fabric inner.

3. For three-season-plus use — 44oz. is pretty heavy for a solo tent. Unless you crave space or you want the Scarp for winter camping as well… I would opt for the lighter Fly Creek UL 1.

Benjamin, thanks for the reply. I think the Big Agnes tent is the option that I am leaning towards especially with your response. I may opt for the UL2 since it would be about the same weight as my DR now. My gf is wanting to get into backpacking with me and I would like to avoid buying four tents. Warm weather solo/double colder weather solo/double. I would use both the UL2 and DR for solo and couples camping. I have reduced my gear to a comfortable weight with the 42 oz of tent so I am comfortable with the UL2.

Thanks again!

You're welcome, Heath. Don't know if you've already crawled inside a Fly Creek UL 2 tent. You can fit two inside — but it's a tight fit. Who knows, maybe that's actually a 'plus' for you. :)

Heath,
Benjamin said some good stuff, but I do have a question. You said you get cold in the DR with temps below 40. Are you cold inside your sleeping bag/quilt? Are you meaning you get cold when you're just hanging out inside the DR?

Yes, many of the tarptents are breezy, but with adequate clothing and/or sleeping bag, that issue is minimized. I've used the DR and Squall 2 in temps down to around 13 degrees F, and stayed warm.

Now, a breezy tarptent in winter isn't everyone's cup of tea, but if you're shivering in the night, I'd also look elsewhere in your gear list for the root of that problem.

I don't think that you can comfortably fit two people into a Fly Creek UL1. UL2, maybe.

–B.G.–

>My gf is wanting to get into backpacking with me and I would like to avoid buying four tents.

You keep talking to Ben the "Gear Enabler," and you'll end up with a dozen shelters!

Tarptent has a liner for the DR central section. That may help with heat retention. It will certainly help with condensation.

For a minimal cost FOUR season setup you can get the Scarp 1 with both the netting inner and the "winter" ripstop inner.

"For a minimal cost FOUR season setup you can get the Scarp 1 with both the netting inner and the "winter" ripstop inner."

Yeah, but the Scarp is relatively heavy for three-season use! That's why Travis mentioned the need for multiple tents. :)

Heavy for 3 season use? Yikes.

I was cold mainly on my face due to wind blowing thru the side of the DR. My bag is a 20 degree bag and I had some duofold long underwear on. I didn't have any major condensation inside the tent this trip either.

Wouldn't the UL2 be around the same size as the DR at least at the top of the tent? I think that would be enough for the GF and I.

I like the idea of the scarp 1 and 2 for four season use. I just don't want to carry the weight of the scarp 2 during the summer. It is easily 12 oz more than the UL2 or DR

I opted for the Scarp 2 with both the mesh and solid inner tents (still waiting on it). I already have an 8×10 silnylon tarp which I'll use on trips where weight is a more significant factor. I also intend to use the tent for winter.

> Wouldn't the UL2 be around the same size as the DR at least at the top of the tent?

The UL2 has substantially less headroom and volume (and floor space) than a DR.

-H

Henry,

I just noticed that this morning. Now this makes the decision more difficult. Is there an update coming for the Scarp 2 to incorporate the changes introduced for 2010 in the Scarp 1?

Yes, the Scarp 2 fly update will be shipping next month.

-H

Thanks for the update Henry! my next trip is in May and the low is supposed to be 55 so I think my current setup will do well. I am going to revisit this decision after you post pics of the Scarp 2 revisions.

You would be better of IMO spending your money (and your ozs) elsewhere, especially on better insulations. You could by a balaclava and / or thicker garments to wear to bed. Also, you could try adding a minimal bivy.

I have slept in a hammock near 0degF without being sealed off completely from drafts (at least not by my shelter).

I wouldn't buy another tent unless you would use it for 4season weather too.

James

James,

That might be something that I look into. I have seen setups for the DR where people dig holes underneath the poles to lower the fly. I have also emailed Henry Shires to retrofit my DR with the new option to pull the floor ends up.

I am also looking at a couple of Big Agnes bags as well. This will be replacing a Campmor 20 degree bag which probably has a questionable temperature rating. The horse thief and zirkel bags specifically. I have a balaclava that I carry with me when temps drop. I don't really like a hood in a bag but I do think that I want a bag over a quilt. I like the BA bags because of the pad pocket that is built in. I wish that BA would overstuff their bags on request :)

Heath:

We all have different hierarchy of priorities… Truth be told, folks (like me and legions of others) who love single wall, non-breathable tents and tarptents are likely the type that places high importance on light weight and lower importance on minimal draft and bone dry, condensation free interior.

Many of us also own double wall tents for their greater versatility and comfort in a wider range of environments — and then use our tarptents for places with more temperate climes and humidity. But it's mostly subjective. YMMV.

But if you are going to resort to digging post holes and retrofitting your tarptent… that seems to tell me that having drafty winds blowing across your face all night is just too uncomfortable for you. It can be a chore having to dig holes each time — AND lowering the tent to reduce the mesh exposure as well as increasing the height of the floor — both will serve to reduce the air circulation that is so critical for managing condensation!! All tarptents need a continuous current of air — and if you block the circulation to any significant degree just because you feel cold — then you may well be asking for condensation problems.

If your budget allows for it — I would recommend getting a light weight double wall tent so you can match the tent or tarptent better to your particular needs. After all, I'm sure you plan to hike in more than just a few different locations/environments, right? It just seems a better alternative than "mangling" a perfectly good tarptent.

>All tarptents need a continuous current of air — and if you block the circulation to any significant degree just because you feel cold — then you may well be asking for condensation problems.

How about ALL tents need ventilation to help limit condensation and ALL tents condensate in certain conditions. A double wall design isn't a magic solution to condensation and the presence of a fabric wall between you and the underside of the fly doesn't prevent condensation. it just provides a barrier that stays more or less dry and limits you from touching the worst of it. The liner for the DR (and now Rainbow) performs that function if you need it.

How about just carrying a piece of 2mil painters plastic to put on the windward side of the DR ? A 3×7' piece should stay put while you were sleeping since it would be anchored under your pad. If you can clip the top edge of the plastic to the edge of the DR with some small binder clips you wouldn't have to worry about flapping noise, or possible condensation transfers to your bag. (Not sure if condensation would even form on a windbreak inside the DR though).

That is a good idea. I could possibly use my thermarest compack chair without a pad for this as well.