Ursak and the JMT

"I've read that this year hard canisters are only required in a few specific areas along the trail, most notably in Yosemite National Park."

Bradly, or anyone else –

Has there been a policy change for 2010?
Got and links to NPS or FS sites clarifying what and where?

Or is this just wishful thinking?

A quick cruise though the YNP site says canisters are still required in the park and on the JMT.

Carry the bear can and camp where you want. It's not gonna break your back. Getting all your food into it will give you a headache though. Not that the ursack is much larger though.

I just got a permit for the JMT today and they SERIOUSLY stressed that bear cans are required.

Play the game,it's far easier than the drama of not having a can. I've been checked by rangers on every trip, sometimes more than once.

Hi Greg,

From http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/bear_bc.htm "Bear resistant canisters strongly recommended", but it is not required.

They are required in Yosemite, but if I camp near Sunrise or Tuolumne I can use the bear lockers supplied and not have to break any regulations.

Sequoia/Kings Canyon N.P. has recently changed its policy:
"Bear resistant canisters strongly recommended
These parks are strongly recommending that all campers carry all food, garbage, and toiletries in a park-allowed bear-resistant food-storage container (canister or pannier). The parks are making a concerted effort to remove broken and unused lockers from the wilderness."

"NOTE: This recommendation is in addition to the existing requirements to carry and use park-allowed, bear-resistant food-storage containers in three specified areas: 1) Rae Lakes Loop and vicinity 2) Dusy and Palisades Basins and 3) Rock Creek drainage."

Yosemite N.P. continues to have the hard approved canister rule. That still leaves some places in between.
–B.G.–

Safer for you and the bears to just suck it up and bring a canister…too many dead bears already from poor food storage. Just be smart about resupplies and you can still stay relatively light (say around 9 to 18 lbs total). EVERY single time I have been down the trail I have found evidence of failed bear bagging or heard first-hand accounts of bears getting food (every one was without a canister)…not to say you can't stealth camp or PCT style it…but I for one would rather carry 2 lbs more and have a chance to see a wild bear not a tagged one waiting for the inevitable.

These bears are SMART…very smart. They have seen it all and done it all—it seems the canisters are working albeit slowly but my last two trips I was fortunate to see wild bears in the morning and one midday foraging happily for food.

Not trying to be the moral police or anything but I love that trail and just hate to see tagged bears at popular sites like Little Yosemite, Sunrise, Rae Lakes, Whitney Portal and Llyell canyon to name a few. Yes, there are storage lockers in these areas but even then…go to Sunrise or Rae Lakes and count the number of campers/sites with food sitting in the open unattended. You won't find me anywhere near ANY site with a storage locker!

couch

What Jeff said. For the Bears sake at least. Besides, Bear Locker campsites can be full/overcrowded and there are way nicer places to spend the night.

Yeah, what Dave said too. Nine seconds too slow.

spend the money and get a Bearikade,
3 or 4 sizes to fit your needs.

a liter of water weighs more than a Bearikade Weekender and almost as much as a Bearikade Expedition.
Carry less water and refill more frequently.

Its not a big deal.

if this is a once in a life time trip for you, I'm sure you can resell it fairly easily.

Ya it sucks, but you get over it. Why burden your self with having to worry about the issue at all? Get a canister. Have fun and camp when and where you want. Forget the lockers.

The reason that I always carry a bear can around there…

1. Yosemite black bears are incredibly smart. I've seen them snag hung food from every other campsite around the same lake where I was camped (but not mine).
2. I got tired of pulling my food up into a tree, even with the two-rope method, so I was secretly happy when NPS started making bear cans mandatory.
3. I never camp anywhere near bear lockers, and I am not going to walk a mile or two to use one. Bear cans are simply handier.
4. A bear can makes a good camp chair.

–B.G.–

Now that everyone has given you the guilt trip and not answered your question I'll take a stab at it.

As mentioned Yosemite and the three SEKI areas (Rae Lakes, Dusy Basin, Rock Creek) are the only ones that do require bear canisters or use of bear boxes.

The Inyo National Forest also has its own requirements. Their maps are here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/bear.shtml
Unfortunately these maps are f-ing impossible to decipher and I cant really tell what I'm looking at.

If you were to simply adhere to the NPS restrictions you could definitely get away with an Ursack and will be within regulation. Your only difficuly day would be leaving Tuolomne Meadows since you would have to make it a few miles over Donohue Pass which is definitely doable, just feels neverending, especially if you get a late start after you wait for the burger shop to open for breakfast.

My advice would be to call someone at Inyo and find out what their restrictions are. Or just hope you see NPS rangers and not Forest Service rangers.

It is not required to take every precaution to protect the bears and your food- you simply have to follow the established regulations. If you can follow all the rules and use an Ursack, then go for it.

Let us know what you find out if you make the call to Inyo.

p.s. when I find your Ursack in July, I will ship it back to you. :)

. . . . .

"If you were to simply adhere to the NPS restrictions you could definitely get away with an Ursack and will be within regulation. Your only difficuly day would be leaving Tuolomne Meadows since you would have to make it a few miles over Donohue Pass which is definitely doable, just feels neverending, especially if you get a late start after you wait for the burger shop to open for breakfast."

I've seen groups take two full days to get from Tuolumne Meadows over Donohue Pass. As far as Lyell Base Camp, it is relatively flat and fast. But then it climbs over the pass.

Bears regularly patrol at Lyell Base Camp, since that is such a commonly used overnight camp.

–B.G.–

I would like to point out an obvious benefit of a canister. Besides the fact that they can hold quite a bit of food, they provide freedom to camp just about wherever you please, not just in close proximity to a bear locker. And you will want that freedom.

Seriously, think of it this way: you don't have to carry a bunch of water on the JMT as it is plentiful. Thus, by dropping one liter of water, you save 2.2 pounds. Think of your bear canister as the extra liter of water you usually carry. Easy as that.

Have fun!

Dirk

It is a confusing collection of Do's and Don't, but regarding the JMT I did find this – (a screen-shot cut and paste)

This is definitive for 2010: JMT/PCT South, John Muir Trail North

Your biggest issue will be the Valley through TM. I believe there is lockers at TM but it is about 24 miles straight uphill and to be legal you would have to do that in a day. Not impossible but unlikely in most cases. You will then need to get Red's Meadow non-stop which will be nearly impossible.

But you will sleep better at night with a canister. You don't wake with every noise wondering if you have to do battle to have your breakfast the next day.

If weight is your concern then a good resupply strategy will be more important. Starting in the valley I would take minimum food and a small canister. You can do a small resupply at TM and then again at Reds Meadow. Depending on your pace you can do Red's to Muir Trail Ranch in two days. Here you pick up your big resupply along with a larger/second canister/Ursack depending on party size. Here an Ursack could play a role. Typically people have overflow food for the first couple of days that doesn't fit into their canister. You could legally use an Ursack in most areas from then on. In the Rae Lakes area your goal would be to empty your ursack and then you would be legal in that area as well.

Here is a map that lays out where canister are required.

http://www.sierrawildbear.gov/foodstorage/map082609.pdf

"You could legally use an Ursack in most areas from then on."

Based on what piece of information?

Edit:

Greg – I just looked at the 2008 Map you point to. You are certainly correct in your assessment. I'll continue to poke around.

For the past month, I've been trying to sort out Canister requirements on the JMT. My confusion stems from (among other things) the Inyo NF webs site nomenclature, as is mentioned below.

I just received the following e-mail from a Yosemite biologist quoting a Inyo NF ranger. I'm heading out of town, so can't I follow up. But this 3rd hand info starts with "Canisters are not required along the entire JMT."

My take on this is to call Inyo for clarification.

If anyone else is pursuing this, please post your findings.

"Sorry for the delayed response. Below is an explanation of the mandatory canister areas on the Inyo NF. Canisters are not required along the entire JMT. The below information is from an Inyo NF wilderness ranger."

Tori Seher
Wildlife Biologist
Yosemite National Park

"Information from the Inyo NF:

Food storage requirements are based on where you are camping, noton your entry point. The list of trails where canisters are required is just entry points that begin in a mandatory canister use area. The idea was to alert people to look more closely for how their travel plan may be affected. We are currently revising much of our website, and will try to better clarify this topic.

Some of the confusion comes from the problem we created when we named these two trail head quota designations at Devils Postpile/ Reds Meadow after our Famous feature, the John Muir Trail. Our wilderness management plan and trail name list, use the name John Muir North to denote the section of the John Muir corridor that is just north of Devils Postpile. The John Muir South, does not mean the entire JMT Corridor, just the segment immediately south of Devils Postpile and Reds Meadow.

The canister required maps should always be referred to for the exact boundary of where the higher standard of food storage is required.

Let me give some examples for this area:
1. Group one starting at Devils Postpile and going south on the John Muir to camp at Virginia Lake. Trail name for the purpose of entry quota is JMT South. Canister is required because they are camping within the required area.

2. Group two starting at Devils Postpile and going south on the John Muir to camp their first night at Tully Hole. Trail name for the purpose of entry quota is JMT South. Canister is not required because they did not camp in the canister required area.

3. Group three starting at Laurel Lakes trailhead. The first night camp is at Lake Dorothy, the second night camp is at Lake Virginia. This group is required to fit all their food and refuse in canisters by the second night, at Lake Virginia because they are now within the canister required area.The first night they would have the option to use other methods to secure their food."

Inyo National Forest issued a Forest Order last year:

Food and Refuse Storage Restrictions
Forest Order No. 04-09-02 dated June 10, 2009 with effective dates June 11 through October 31, 2009.
Order:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/bearmaps/order04-09-02.pdf
Inyo bear page:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/bear.shtml

Lists certain areas which require storage "in a container designed to prevent access by bears." All other areas add an option "or counter-balanced at least 15 feet above the ground and 10 feet horizontally from a tree trunk."

A few comments:
The order is expired- who knows if they will reissue the same order with a new date, change it, etc?

"container designed to prevent access by bears." It doesn't say hard canister, it doesn't refer to SIBBG approved list, it doesn't say proven to work in all cases. The web page index says "canister" but the individual maps don't. Ursak seems to meet the "designed" requirement.

Above,or near treeline camping. No way you can get a counter-balance 15' above the ground and 10' out from the trunk above about 10,000' on the JMT. Trees start to get pretty puny as you approach tree line. The requirement doesn't give an out for high altitude camps.

from the Ursack web site:
"January 13, 2010

It appears that Ursack will be allowed almost everywhere in the Sierra this year except Yosemite National Park and three areas (Rae Lakes, Dusy Basin, Rock Creek) of SEKI. We calculate that Ursack may be used on more than 98% of the Pacific Crest Trail. SIBBG, the Sierra Agency Black Bear Group, no longer exists. There are no standardized bear canister tests–each Superintendent of Forest Service Manager makes the decision for his or her own area. While Ursack will likely submit the S29 AllWhite Hybrid for consideration by Yosemite and SEKI, there can be no assurance of approval given those parks lack of testing criteria and/or their historical antipathy toward Ursack."

–B.G.–

Do what you will… but after talking to the folks at Down Works (backpacking gear store in Santa Cruz where Ursack is sold) I will never take one into the Sierras…. They are not recommending the Ursack to Sierra hikers as they keep coming back to them with the bottoms torn out by Sierra bears.

"They are not recommending the Ursack to Sierra hikers as they keep coming back to them with the bottoms torn out by Sierra bears."

Lori,
Can you point to documentation, articles, etc. for this. I'd really like to know the source.

Thanks.

I thought it was pretty clear I was talking to the owner of the store who was selling Ursacks? I don't have articles. I was in there asking about using an Ursack in the Sierras, since I was interested in using a lighter alternative in the areas outside bear canister mandates. They had a box of Ursacks sitting on their shelf. She didn't recommend them.

Since I already know how to hang food bags and have canisters, I didn't pursue the matter further.