0 down bags

I know you're asking about a down bag, and YMMV, but those temps are pushing the comfort of the Big Agnes pad, even for the insulated air core. Is it the insulated pad? If not, I'd highly suggest looking into boosting the R-value of your pad. That will help a LOT when it comes to staying warm while sleeping. I can feel the cold creeping through my insulated BA pad in temps below 20, and sometimes disrupts my sleep.

I can only comment on the Antelope- you don't need any extra fill for it to be a reliable zero degree bag. I use a long version in Northeast winters, and it is very well filled (2lbs 10ounces in long). It comes in a 5'6" length too…

The Big Agnes is the Primaloft 66X20. Its still new & I can return it. I looked at the Exped down7 but thats more weight. BUT staying warm is 1st if that would be abetter choice.

Antelope come w/ extra fill at no charge so I might as well get it that way if the WM the best choice.

Wayne,
Since it's the insulated version, you may be ok in those temps. Personally, I can begin to feel the cold. If you really like that pad, an easy and light options is to add a bit of CCF. This should boost you to a comfortable sleeping temperature for the lower end of your range.

http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html

The Big Agnes Insulated pad has an R-value of 4.1.
On the link I gave you, the 1/8 pad will add .45, the 1/4 pad will add .9, and the 3/8 pad will add 1.36 to the R-value.

Supposedly you need an R-value of 5 to prevent the cold ground from leaching your body heat. You'd probably be fine adding the 1/4 inch pad.

Another option: There is a KookaBay sleeping pad on Gear Swap. You could get it and ask Bender (a member here who's company KookaBay makes ultralight sleeping pads) to fill it with down. But that may start to get complicated….

Guys, for the benefit of our international readers, why don't you use C for Celcius and F for Fahrenheit when you specify temperatures? Just for the sake of clarity!

–B.G.–

Sorry ,I am asking about Fahrenheit.

Wayne dump the BA Aircore- it might be why our are sleeping cold, I could only get down to 30*F before it would suck the heat right out of me.
BTW, I'm partial to WM bags

Thanks for all the replys. I have not camped at 8000ft & 10-20F temps. before so all the help & advice is greatly appreciated.

1.) I think you have three great sleeping bag choices there. I am partial to Western Mountaineering, and doubt you could do better than a Antelope, but you really would probably be happy with any of them.

2.) That pad will not be warm enough! I know they say they are good to 15* but they lie. I would get a CC Foam pad (like the ridgerest) to go underneath it, or go with an Exped Downmat 7 or KookaBay pad. You could also look at the Womens ProlitePlus. The womens version is warmer than the mens.

Why a 0F bag for 10-20F temp range (I'm assuming your specified temps are already adjusted for elevation)? My guess if you are "cold" your existing bag is underrated or as others have suggested your sleeping pad may be the issue.

Many here would use a 10 to 20F bag and add some extra clothing (e.g. WM Versalite, MB SS UL #1) if you expect colder temps. If you plan to regularly see 0F than I can see the point. Otherwise you'll be carrying extra weight/bulk for a single purpose item. If you really do need a 0F bag, I've sleep below zero (f) in my Montbell UL SS #0 several times and been comfortable.

I am playing it safe. I have NO experience at these temps. Just I'm cold in a 35F bag at 35F. From what I read the Euro bags have a Comfort rating & an Extreme rating. The Extreme rating is what the bags goes by. A zeroF degree rating is the Extreme rating. I assume the American bags are the same. . I could be way off on this but I am seeing it that a zeroF rating would be comfortable at 12-15F and the zero rating would be the extreme. I'm taking a MontBell UL down sweater too.

Of the three you listed Wayne, I'd go with the WM (free pillow?! free overfill!?!?!?)

Wayne,
I'll throw in my .02 – being "a cold sleeper"…

First,
A Western Mountaineering bag rated to 20°F will keep most people warm at 20°F. A Montbell #2 rated to 25°F will keep most people warm at 25°. I think the same can be said of the Feathered Friends bags. The "rated temperature" on quality USA bags is usually close.

Second,
As mentioned above, and elsewhere, the most overlooked aspect of sleeping warm is the pad/matt you are on. In my humble opinion, many are Over-rated. Your pad is not the place to save weight or dollars. A BA Insulated Air Core is Not what you want for 20° temperatures. The "known quantity and quality" of an Exped is worth the bucks, especially as you sort things out. Later, you may be able to lose some weight here, but, as a starting point, this is one area where you need absolutely no doubt. If comfort is not an issue then the ThermaRest Women's Prolite at R4 on top of a 1/2" of Closed Cell Foam should do the trick.

Third,
You say you sleep cold. Do you sleep cold at home? Is your bedroom thermostat at 80°? Do you pile on the covers? Or is this just an "in the woods" thing? (At home or in the woods I start cold, and then move to hot. But I need a bag "rated 10° warmer than expected temps" to get a comfortable start on the night, then I shed. I don't have warm "camp clothes", or I'd use them.) Are you well fed and hydrated as you hit the sack? Do you have a snack (65% chocolate) on hand for the 2 am chill?

Fourth,
Will you be taking down "camp clothing" that could easily augment the rating of a bag? No sense using it as a pillow when it could save you a pound and $150. I assume you sleep in a balaclava or a hoody?

Fifth,
Will you be in a cabin, a solid double walled tent, a net tent, or a bivy? The wind can make a Big difference at 10°F, depending on your shelter.

So…apply the above, comment, and ask some more questions. The more that is known, the better the responses.

I hope this helps sort things out.

I just broke mine in three weeks ago, camped on snow, with two nights between 9,000 and 9,600 ft, first morning woke up to 5f, second morning 9f, in a double wall tent with another person. I used a Thermarest Ridgerest on top, BMW Torsolite pad in the middle, and GG 1/8" thinlite on the bottom, all short, with the GG sit pad thing under my feet. BPL merino wool baselayers on top and bottom with Patagonia R1 over them on top and bottom, polypro glove liners, Icebreaker balaclava (first night), and BPL merino beanie (second night), and Feathered Friends down booties.

I consider myself a cold sleeper, and have had problems with cold feet in the past; low blood pressure doesn't help.

But in the Antelope, I was really warm. The second night half way through the night I even removed my hat and gloves. I actually got hot.

Brian's right though too. I went back and forth between the Antelope and Versalite, opting in the end for the Antelope, since I know I'll end up using it in conditions a little colder than described above, in a tent by myself, and because I wanted a little insurance. Too, one thing to bear in mind is that the Antelope uses their Microfiber fabric, which is a little more water resistant than the fabric on the Versalite, and given how important it is to keep your down dry–especially when it gets that cold at night–it's a little more peace of mind.

While all the commentary and personal insight previously provided for cold weather sleeping are great and did the topic well, one more very important piece of information that you should include on the list. “What you have in your “furnace/stomach” in the form of food calories prior to settling in is the variable most important since it is the fuel that keeps you warm when it is metabolized.” Without adequate food calories in your body all the great insulation above, beneath and around your body will not keep you comfortable in any cold climatic condition.

My bad, I should have ask, What do I need to add or replace to the equipment I already have to sleep warm at 10F. You cannot give me the right answer if I dont ask the right question. I picked a zeroF bag to ensure I would stay warm. I thought I did all the research on the bags but I should have ASK the you experts 1st. I will start a new thread that ask the RIGHT questions. Thanks for all the help.