Apr 11, 2010 at 11:50 am #1257576
Recently I picked up an SL3 for a great price on Gear Swap, and would like to make a floor/bug net combo that weighs less than the 28oz version that can be purchased. There are three methods that I am considering, and any feedback you have would be appreciated.
Sew a netting skirt around the perimeter, and continue to use a separate ground sheet. This would be a light option but is the least bug proof, and the netting skirt might be annoying in the winter.
Sew velcro around the perimeter, and make a floor/net with corresponding velcro.
Sew a complete net tent. This would be more versatile than the velcro option, and the weight of the extra netting would be offset by the lack of velcro.
It seems like my biggest problem is that I don't know the weight of velcro to calculate the difference in weight between options 2 and 3. Anyone know the weight of 1/2" velcro? Has anyone tried cutting 1/2" in half to get 1/4" velcro, and if so would that work for this type of application?
I know other people have tried these solutions, and if you have I would love to hear what worked well, what you would change, and what weights you achieved with your MYOG options.
Also, I'm looking for suggestions for flooring material that is durable enough to handle the abuse of a three year old.
-DavidApr 11, 2010 at 4:19 pm #1596840Apr 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm #1596939
Boy, Todd that design of yours is darn near perfect.
Does it only use half the SL3? From your sketchup picture it looks like you're using the lower attachment clips, how are you planning to attach the top?
If and when you make one, if something isn't perfect with the prototype you let me know! I'd gladly recoup your efforts.
ChrisApr 11, 2010 at 8:29 pm #1596940
W I S N E R !BPL Member
I'm totally interested in you design Tood- nice looking plan.
This is pretty much what I thought of doing, but I lack the Sketchup skills you've got there.
A ~10oz. inner would be amazing.
That would give you a one man palace (if you used trekking poles) for just over 2 pounds. That's exactly what my old Contrail weighed after seam sealing for much less space.Apr 12, 2010 at 3:26 pm #1597182
That looks like a great design! I too would love to hear how it turns out. Definitely let us know how it goes.
-DavidApr 12, 2010 at 4:11 pm #1597194Apr 12, 2010 at 8:32 pm #1597276
Ah ha! I see where you're attaching it to the top now. I thought that was where it was but I got confused in the lines a bit. I take it the floor will be a bathtub style, or more the the MLD nest?
Having an actual living space away from blackflys (they're terrible in the Porcies as soon as we're out of spring), but still having room for all the gear/kitchen would be amazing.
I sure hope the design works out for you (and isn't a pain to do! :) )
ChrisApr 13, 2010 at 2:44 am #1597363Apr 13, 2010 at 3:51 am #1597369
That looks like a nice design. Kath and I made something similar last year for our Hex 3. Weight with tyvek floor and light mesh canopy came in around 16oz.
We discovered velcro is a bad idea as the hook half snags on the mesh quite badly. I'm using ziplock now.Apr 13, 2010 at 6:51 am #1597391
For what it's worth, I've heard that Omni Tape or "snag free fastener" like this (scroll down to the bottom of the HOOK & LOOP section) works well as it will not stick to mesh. I may get a little just to play around with since it seems like it could have interesting MYOG applications.Apr 13, 2010 at 7:28 am #1597407
Ziploc is much lighter.Apr 13, 2010 at 7:32 am #1597408
Rog, what is Ziploc? I tried a little searching online but wasn't quite sure what I was looking for. Is there an online source you can point me towards?
Thanks!Apr 13, 2010 at 7:47 am #1597423
I too have recently purchased a shangra-La -3 and love it. I used it for winter and early spring camping. I am now spoiled. I would like to add the bug netting, but I am wondering why you are only covering half of the shelter? Is it a weight issue?
On another note, Has anyone designed a beak or awning for bad weather cooking, or do you do what I did and retreat inside to cook without getting snowed and rained on.
DaveApr 13, 2010 at 1:45 pm #1597558
David G, I think you just answered your own question. Who needs a beak or awning for a huge tent like the hex3? Our half net is plenty big for to to sleep in with the other half of the tent free for cooking and entertaining guests. ;-)
David L, ziploc is the stuff found on the top edge of resealing plastic bags. I have tried to get a continuous roll supplied, but without buying a kilometer, it's tricky. I've re-used short lengths off bags for now.Apr 13, 2010 at 2:37 pm #1597575
I thought that might be what you were referring to, but I was secretly hoping it was either a cool new product or you had found a good source for continuous lengths of ziploc.
Is it pretty easy to get several lengths sealed to close a door? It seems like there would be a pretty high "fiddle factor" when using short length from bags.Apr 13, 2010 at 3:46 pm #1597597
Not too bad, we just tacked bits to the door edge. If you just pinch it together every few inches, the rest stays close enough together to keep the pesky six leggers out.Apr 13, 2010 at 4:59 pm #1597637
I found an older thread with some answers.
DaveApr 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm #1597683
David G –
You pretty much nailed it dead on with the last sentence with the cooking. On the rare occation I need more real estate than the SL3 already offers, I'll hang my silponcho as a diamond tarp from the cone out over the door, but that involves finding a branch or trees of acceptable height and making sure I don't pull the whole thing over just for a front porch.
I got the SL3 for me to have some room to stretch and lounge in. If I need more room than that… oh boy.
Love it. Even if it ends up over your projected weight analysis, I'd still want one. I'll cut something else out to offset sweet bug-free room.
ChrisApr 17, 2010 at 1:12 pm #1598963
To put things in perspective a little bit, here are some theoretical numbers along with a list of pros and cons for all of the options I’ve considered. The goal with all of these options is for the entire shelter to be bug proof, rather than just a 1-2 person sized area, so that two adults, one small child, and gear can fit comfortably inside.
Based on my findings I may just purchase the stock Nest for its durability and make my own light-weight solo or duo model similar to Todd’s great design (thanks Todd!).
As always, I welcome any corrections, suggestions, or criticisms that you might have.
Here are the totals to make the entire shelter bug proof, including a mesh door, using 0.7oz/sy mesh and 1.3oz/sy silnylon for the floor.
Option 1 = 13.5oz*
Option 2 = 15.8oz
Option 3 = 18oz
*Not 100% bug proof—see details below
Sew skirt of 0.7 oz/sy netting directly to perimeter of shelter (29.5’ measured perimeter).
12” = 2.3oz
18” = 3.4oz
At the cost of a little more complexity and weight, an OmniTape and netting door could be sewn on for increased ventilation in warm/dry weather. Using 1” OmniTape cut to ½” and an ounce or so of netting would weigh about 1.6oz.
A full size groundsheet overlapping the 18” netting might make the setup “bug proof enough” for most conditions (12” might not be enough to overlap well). This option would allow the groundsheet to easily be replaced if it wore out.
A full size ground sheet made of 1.3oz/sy silnylon would weigh about 8.5oz.
Pros—lightest weight, simplest to make, relatively low fuss, cheapest
Cons—not completely bug proof, not removable, requires directly modifying the shelter which may affect resale value, could be a pain when snow camping
Total Added Weight:
18” Net = 3.4oz
Door = 1.6oz
Ground Sheet = 8.5oz
TOTAL = 13.5oz (subtract 1.1oz if using 12” net)
Sew strip of ½” OmniTape around the entire perimeter of the shelter (29.5’), and sew a floor/netting combo with matching strip of OmniTape.
½” OmniTape added to shelter = 1.4oz
½” OmniTape and 12” mesh to be sewn to floor = 1.4 + 2.3 = 3.7oz
Bathtub floor of 1.3oz/sy silnylon to be sewn to mesh/OmniTape = 8.5oz
Mesh door with additional OmniTape to make it removable = ~2.2oz
Pros—complete bug protection, moderately light weight, removable except for an ounce and a half of OmniTape, less expensive than full net tent
Cons—would take a bit of fuss to get attached, requires sewing directly to shelter, more complex to sew than option 1
Total Added Weight:
OmniTape/Mesh/Floor = 13.6oz
Mesh/OmniTape Door = 2.2oz
TOTAL = 15.8oz
Sew a complete net tent similar to the Nest available from Golite.
Based on preliminary designs, I would need about 100sf of mesh (for actual shelter—would require about 9 linear yards of 60” mesh) and either OmniTape or a #3 zipper for the opening (or Ziplocs like Rog uses).
Mesh = 7.8oz
1.3oz/sy silnylon bathtub floor = 8.5oz
6’ #3 zipper = 1.3oz
½” OmniTape closure = 0.6oz
Pros—complete bug protection, free-standing, not much fuss, doesn’t require sewing directly to shelter
Cons—heaviest, most expensive (about the same cost as buying a Nest, but about 10oz lighter), more complex to sew than option 1
Total Added Weight:
Net Tent w/Zipper = 17.6
Net Tent w/Velcro = 16.9
I would expect to add less than an ounce of light cord for corner stake-out points.
TOTAL = ~18oz w/ZipperApr 17, 2010 at 2:54 pm #1598996
John Frederick AndersonMember
Here is a lateral thought.
If you are only needing bug nets for sleeping, why not get one or two Six Moon Designs Serenity nets and set them up when you go to bed. They are 7 oz each.
Until then, any kind of cheap and light groundsheet like Tyvek would do for a large dry area, and you could have the whole space to hang out in with the young one until bed.
I use a SMD Serentity in my SL3 sometimes- great bugnet. Fits under a 10×8 tarp and a SoloMid too.
There's a thread with a picture of mine that shows the setup on BPL somewhere- do a search, if you like.
fredApr 17, 2010 at 3:43 pm #1599010
Thanks for the input. In theory I like your idea, but when it comes down to it I don't think it's the best option for me for a couple of reasons.
First, my son is a restless sleeper and I don't think there is anyway he and an adult would be able to share something as small as the Serenity. (He ends up sideways most of the time.)
Second, two Serenity nets only weigh 14oz, but add even a light weight ground sheet and the weight bumps up to at least 20oz. Since two SMD nets plus cheap floor costs more and weighs more than a MYOG full net tent, it doesn't seem worth it.
If this weren't primarily a family shelter, (i.e. if I didn't need all the floor space covered for an active three year old) then a couple of Serenity's would be a great way to get a spacious modular sleeping system for a couple of people.
Thanks again for the suggestion, I'm sure for a lot of people that could be the perfect solution.
-DavidApr 20, 2010 at 10:00 am #1600038
I am very interested in option 2. Although I now own the nest, if I go solo I would rather test option 2 as a weight saver.
I did purchase a 5×8 sil-tarp on sale at prolite gear and it meets my foul weather porch needs at just 7 ounces.
I look forward to your results.
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