A Couple of Insulating Jackets

Seening this post I ordered one of the Mountainsmith jackets. Got it today…seems very well made and pretty darn light. Loft seems to be about 4″ in the body, there are baffles, this is not sewn thru. A wind thingy behind the zipper. The zips and bottom bungee are too heavy for this high tech a piece, the bungee seems easy to replace w/ a lighter one. It also looks way cool in the silver fabric.
I called Mountainsmith about the jacket and the guy said it was never for sale…was put together as a promotional piece. To me it seems a steal at even $100.

HOW IS THE SIZING?

I’m 5’9″ ,145lbs and usually wear a 38/39 suit size and the medium fits perfect w/ a little room for layering. I put it on the gram scale- as is it weighs exactly 15 oz.

So, I snipped out the handwarmer pocket zippers and exchanged the cordlocks and bungee on the hem for a lighter bungee w/o cordlocks and lost an ounce-down to 14 oz. This thing is very warm.

Mark – can you tell what it is that bumps the weight of this jacket up to 15 oz, compared to the 11 of the Western Mountaineering Flight? Useful features, lower-fill down, heavier fabric, or all of the above?

Ben

Well, I couldn’t resist for $99. I bought one – I give a detailed report on it when it shows up.

Ben

Yeah . . . me too.

I think it takes some sort of ultra Zen to design a jacket that is really light. A Marmot DriClime wind shirt is a pound and it’s not overloaded with bells and whistles — no zippers on the handwarmer pockets and the fabric seems light enough. It is lined with the DriClime micro fleece wich doesn’t seem to be very heavy either, but it all adds up.

I picked up a used Sierra Desgins windbreaker that has light fabric, but it is made anorak style and quite long, and they made the chest pockets very large, effectively doubling the fabric in front. It has a hood too. It’s a good garment, but at 12oz, it doesn’t give any more function than a 6oz windshirt. Those windshirts getting down to 2-3oz are really practicing the Zen of UL. Now step up to making a jacket with two layers of some sort of FairyCloth and then stuff it with some sort of insulation– that’s a tough project. With down, the fabric needs enough integrity to keep the quill ends from poking through– another order of magic to me. I’ve never seen one of the Cocoon jackets up close– that’s about as light as I’ve found a synthetic jacket. I have a Marmot polyfill jacket that is very Spartan and it tips the scale at 19oz. I bought it used, so I’ve never known the materials used past a nylon shell and the polyester fill. Those WM flight jackets are really lofty for the weight (and should be for the price).

Same order of magic for sleeping bags– just big jackets really.

The outer poly fabric is REALLY light, the inner is not so light..probably a 1.1 oz ripstop. The zipper is a larger one than the WM , plus it had zips on the pockets. Also, the bottom heavy bungee w/ 2 cordlocks….also the baffles as opposed to sewn thru. Finally, 750 fill vs. 850 fill.

Dale, that was a really great response. I think you’re absolutely right – I’ve never used the WM Flight, but I’ve ogled and groped it in a local store, and it is certainly a minimal affair. I felt like the Michelin Man – a sweaty version – when I put it on. Nice examples with the windshirts, too. Sometimes it’s hard to web-shop – you see a 5 oz windshirt and scoff at the weight – there are sub-3 oz windshirts out there (according to manufacturer claims) – but then you actually grab the 5-oz item and it’s so friggin’ light you can’t believe it. I’m sure that a 15 oz jacket with this much loft will feel like wearing a cloud.

On another note – I called Mountainsmith and apparently spoke to the same guy Mark Cole spoke with. He said that Mountainsmith never sold any of these, and that they were developed to give to “industry people” – sponsored racers and such. As the MS rep said, “you won’t have to worry about running into someone else on the trail with the same jacket, and if you do, it’s probably someone pretty dang cool.”

Made me smile.

Ben

hope they actually have stock

if there aren’t very many of these around, we’ve just created quite a club!

I just received mine yesterday (happy birthday, me). It’s a VERY nice looking piece – great loft, and light to boot. I haven’t weighed it yet, but I’m assuming my medium will be 15 oz from the box too.

I agree that the shell fabric is pretty special – durability seems comparable to the .9 oz stuff that Western Mountaineering uses on the flight, but this actually has a nicer finish and is ripstop. It is silver, which is pretty striking.

I’m 5′ 11″, 150# – the medium is a perfect fit. I have pretty long arms, and the sleeves were fine – my main concern.

I also agree that the zippers are WAY overkill for a jacket like this. There’s certainly an ounce to be saved by getting rid of zippers, zipper pulls, and going lighter on the waist shock cord.

The shell fabric is a little snaggy, but so far I’ve only had trouble when trying to zip it up to put it on a hanger – the angle when you’re in front and the jacket is slack just causes bunching. That doesn’t happen when I’m wearing it.

It will stuff into it’s pocket easily, and you can zip it back up.

Anyways, great deal if you can grab it, and it fits.

Ben

I got mine in the mail last week, everything mentioned above is true for mine too, particularly the fit, which has been historically difficult for me. However, I’m curious if anyone else has noticed dark splotches scattered below the surface of the jacket, almost as if they’re embedded in the down chambers. Upon pressing the polyant shell down toward the splotch, what is revealed is a little bundle of blackish thread–or that’s what I think they are. And these are scattered all over the jacket, probably a half dozen of them in total. I’m wondering if these jackets are seconds. Has anyone else seen this? If not, I might have GearX exchange mine for an unblemished model.

I have the dark splotches too – they look like dark feathers to me.

Man, this IS a very comfortable well-built (slightly overbuilt) jacket. Agree a size or two smaller on the zippers and smaller cordlocks & cords would have saved and ounce or two.

Medium fit is really nice, which is rare for me. I’m 5’5″ and currently in the 160s – often have to get a large to cover my chest/shoulders/belly, but this is a generous medium, so the sleeves are more appropriate length (lots of times I’ll get good fit in the upper torso, but floppy long sleeves and sometimes floppy long lower part of the shirt/coat).

Yep, have the splotches, but I too think they’re just dark thread (dunno how it got there) or dark feathers.

Either way, it doesn’t bug me too much.

Ben

Found this –
http://www.geartrade.com/browse/106/94/181/item/31951

It’s a Mountainsmith sleeping bag that appears to use the exact same downproof shell as the jacket we’ve been discussing. Dimension Polyant Airnet fabric, apparently – hopefully this helps someone who was curious as to the construction and materials.

Ben

A quick Google search for “Dimension Polyant Airnet” shows that Mountainsmith used this fabric extensively in its sleeping bag line, including on the Wisp (the bag that Jay Ham cannibalized for his MYOG quilt project). Some reviews compare it very favorably to Pertex Quantum, just a shade lighter (0.8 oz, according to a climbing.com review). Anyways, just FYI for our little club :)

Ben

FYI: Dimension Polyant is a wholesale sailcloth company that sells Airnet, as well as other sailcloths.