Best Canister Stove Choices?

I am in the same boat: could build an alcohol stove, probably will at some point, but going to get a canister. I am interested in the snowpeak gigapower, but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I own a lot of stoves, including four canister stoves. My current favorite is the Coleman F1 Ultralight. It's less than three ounces and is hotter than any other stove I've used.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___85280

This stove did very well in the BPL tests a couple of years ago. You can look for the results on this site.

One trip I went hiking with my buddy Todd. I used a Crux, he used Caldera Cone. For about 7 miles of trail we argued the merits of both.
He said, "Why do they call it the Crux? Cause at the crux of getting a boil you run out of gas?"
For two days I was boiling water left, and right while he patiently waited for a boil in his plodding Alchy stove.
On the last day I was making morning coffee. Right when I started to get some minor bubble action- sputter, sputter…DEAD. Out of gas- RIGHT AT THE CRUX! DAMMIT!
When we stopped laughing we hiked out, me, hanging my head.

There was a CC/ BPL 550 pot at my house within a couple weeks!

Knowing exactly how much fuel you have cannot be underestimated. It is paramount.
This was coffee on the last morning, yes… but lesson learned.
And 4oz for an empty canister?!?- insult to injury

LOL. Great story Jeff, it summarizes very well why I too prefer alcohol over canister. 4oz. for an empty piece of waste that robs room in the pack just isn't practical all the time. I've gone on 2 trips where I've either brought an empty canister and had to rely on my buddies Catcan stove or ran out of fuel because I had less fuel than I thought I had. For a little over a year I've been using alcohol and most recently purchased a Caldera Ti-Tri and will likely not go back to canister. I do own a Snow Peak Lite Max and it's an incredible little stove and the weight is almost indecipherable, I really like it, however the only downside is its fuel source.

With that said, John, I'd recommend this setup as a good all around canister stove/pot combo:

Stove: Snowpeak Litemax
Mug/Pot: Snowpeak 700 Ti Trek
Fuel: Gigapower 110 (will fit inside mug)

The Gigapower 110 fuel canister or equivalent can nestle down in the mug, the stove and cloth case will fit inside the mug, as will a spork and a small firesteel. The lid on this mug is a bonus as well for doing pasta. This setup is compact and fairly light and will let you do larger boils than a cup and is plenty of water for most dehydrated meals and pasta for solo use.

You haven't given us your criterion for judging what is 'best', so will likely get a list personal favourites from various posters.

You need to decide what is important and then gain the knowledge to help choose the stove that will most likely fit your requirements.

For example, if use in low/marginal temperatures is likely, consider this: aluminium has a high thermal conductivity, so a stove with an aluminium base and mixer tube will conduct more heat to the canister whan one made from brass or steel and this will help to keep the stove going as the canister gets low.

John,

Jetboil stoves are popular among BGT members; see the Reader Reviews that sing their praises. I'm a Jetboil junkie and particularly recommend the PCS (or new Flash) for solo use. I think the Flash is on sale – you can get the coffee press included at the stove price. Go for it. Richard

This topic has already been beaten to death on the following thead. It's a good read, with several tangents and thread derailments along the way

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=20654&skip_to_post=255565

I personally use an optimus crux if I were to take a canister stove. Its not the most efficient or the lightest, but its got precision control for output. I also only bring canister stoves if I am making gourmet food on the trail. With the crux, I can make eggs and pancakes like I were on a home stove. For normal water boiling, I use esbit or alcohol

Like others have pointed out, if your trip is not a through hike that lasts around a couple of weeks, than canisters are too heavy, compared to alcohol or esbit, and not knowing how much fuel you have left is less than optimal.

If you want math and scientific graphs with pretty colors to convince you to stay away from a canister stove, check these out
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/stoveweight_vs_time_14days.php
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/stoveweight_vs_time_28days.php

Not gonna lie though, I do miss the simplicity of canister stoves, when im out using my alcohol stoves. Esbit is pretty straight forward, but smells like fish :D

I use a Coleman F1 that is a real blowtorch, but I use it for group/family outings where a lot of hot water is needed. Each person in the group can carry a share of the fuel without needing specialized containers.

My guesstimation is that the F1, the SnowPeak GigaPower, and the MSR Pocket Rocket are all pretty close in weight and performance. I could see splitting hairs if getting down to critical fuel consumption for thru-hiking, etc.

I want to see some feedback on the new Soto OD-1R Micro Regulator stove. It is supposed to have better cold weather performance, has a lighter and is 2.75oz — and $69 :(

http://www.rei.com/product/785338

I tend to use a Caldera Cone for my solo trips.

Hey Dale, did you see this thread? Looks like the soto isn't all cracked out to what a lot of people were expecting/assuming/hoping.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=30038

On paper it looked good…but so does everything in this hobby :/

I don't want to debate the merits of different stoves at the moment, but I thought you might find interesting the results of some old calculations I made of the relative efficiencies of different *fuels* when container weight is considered:

Note that this chart assumes complete combustion of the fuel and ignores stove/pot efficiency which can vary substantially.

-Mike

I haven't seen this particular table before listing the Coleman Powermax at 100%. I'd like to understand the variables in the analysis. Can you provide links back to the initial analysis? Also missing in this discussion. Is there a reliable way to assess gas left in a canister based upon weight or those weird little thermometer stickers that are sold?

The "relative efficiency" column is just a normalized version of the "total btu/oz" column (which includes container weight).

Background:

I weighed the various containers and calculated the energy density from the molecular composition of the fuels. There were some approximations, particularly with propane/butane fuel blends, and white gas which can vary with different components. But, I did this work 5 years ago, so I don't recall the exact assumptions used. Plus, there's always the possibility that I botched something — it was never peer reviewed, published, or anything. I'm just posting this now because I thought others might find it useful.

To assess gas left in a canister, I weigh the canister when new and after each trip and write the weight on the bottom of the can with a Sharpie. (Yah, this doesn't help in the middle of a hike…)

-Mike

I'd recommed an upgrade to the Optimus Crux. It's the Brunton Flex, made by Optimus to Brunton's specs. I have one and like it.

BTW, take ESBIT tabs as a backup to canister stoves. Use small rocks for the pot stand.

See my post on measuring remaining fuel in canisters.

Thanks for all the useful replies-I've been using google-searching BPL all day for more info :)

I won't be using these in too many cold conditions, so not worried about that. Wind should also not be a huge deal.

REI actually sells a "Snowpeak Starter Kit" which includes the Gigapower (not the Litemax, unfortunately!) a Ti spork and Trek Ti 700, all for $85. Definitely being considered.

So is the Jetboil Flash, mostly for the simplicity of its design. It also looks more fuel efficient than most of the options.

and… …there are enough users here that seem to love them that I've started considering biting the bullet and using alcohol/esbit on a Caldera Cone. In all honesty the CC kind of intimidates me, but it seems incredibly light and reliable. How well do they hold up? Durability is a big concern for me.

As far as use of the Trek 700 is concerned, do you miss having an insulating cozy on it? After boiling water in it will the handle be touchable or too hot to use? Is it easy to burn your lip on the mug? Never used Ti before, unsure of how it handles heat.

One more question: what's the relative fuel-finding difficulty between say, alcohol or esbit, isobutane (which the snow peak uses) and the propane/isobutane mix the Jetboil seems to require?

How does the Cone perform in poor (windy, rainy) weather?

I'm new to this forum so sorry if this is just a bad suggestion but I've used a Kovea Titanium quite a lot which weighs only 3oz and burns a lot hotter than the other canister stove's I've had. Also has a piezo ignition but I guess that's just extra weight you dont want. Not sure if you could remove it.

Benen

I made my own cozy for my SP 700 from Reflectix insulation. Made one for my 900, 1400, and freezer bags. Great stuff.

Thanks very much for that tip on canisters displacing water in a container! That method was first used by Archimedes in Greece to detect the difference between real gold and a fake gold mixed with silver . The Original Eureka!(Greek for I have found it) moment as it occurred to him while he was in his bathtub.

Of all the canister stoves mentioned I think the Optimus Crux is your best bet. Sure it might not be the lightest or have the quickest boil times but its made to last.

As an optimus crux owner, I agree they are well built, but im not sure I can agree with Lawson, in that they are made to last. One of the most common complaints by crux owners, including myself, is that the dam* thing will rust. Every crux I've come upon, that was stored slightly wet, has rusty arms. These rusty arms prevent the arms from folding smoothly. It's nothing you can't fix with a lil white vinegar, but its a caveat you should keep in mind if you do choose to buy a crux. Can be problematic in wet/snowy conditions. The Brunton Flex that was recommended, is just an optimus crux, but with an extra arm. I'm not sure its worth the extra weight, as I find the optimus crux's 3 arms sturdy enough for all my pots

They just rereleased the crux with a slightly different cooking kit, see
http://www.hikinginfinland.com/2010/03/video-optimus-crux-lite-in-winter.html

Not sure if they solved the rusting problem with this newer release, or if they are still using the same stove with same materials

John, to answer a few of your other questions….

The "Snowpeak Starter Kit," is a pretty good deal, but it's a greater deal if you wait a couple more days, when REI comes off with their 20% members coupon. Keep in mind though, that the Trek pot comes with a steel lid, thats a bit heavy and overkill. Most people find the SP 600 to be the ideal size for solo use. Plus theres places where you can get custom lightweight lids for it. Also, looking back at my cook kit, had I known that I would be eating out of freezer bags as often as I do, I would have opted for the long handled ti spoons earlier.

About Jetboil's and heat exchanger stoves…there's an article here on BPL (its member access only though) that did a study on heat exchanger stoves like Jetboil, primus eta, etc. The findings summed up were that the extra weight carried due to the heat exchanger built into the pot, was more than any weight savings in fuel consumption…so all in all not really worth it. The only real benefits to a system like a Jetboil, are its user-friendliness

The Caldera Cone is pretty straight forward to use, once you've done it once or twice. Durability is kinda of an issue, unless you get the titanium version. The problem with the regular aluminum ones is storing it. The cones are are plenty durable, unless you abuse it. Most often, the cones are damaged when they are in someone's pack, getting smooshed. Therefore you have to be sure that you store the cone in a hard container of some sort. Sure you can buy a a 2 piece plastic cone caddy, but thats just an extra 2.8 ounces. However, i found that Half the caddy will nest perfectly with my SP600, so i can store the cone inside the half caddy/Ti cup, which saves me 1.2 ounces (when compared to using both sides of the caddy) Not sure if this applies to other pot sizes and their correspondent caddys. Also, they have a compact version of the cone, that fully stores into your Ti cup. They are slightly less efficient, but had I known the how slight the difference was, I would have gotten the compact over the regular cone, for my sp600. Durability isn't a problem here, because your Ti cup serves as the caddy. As far as the aluminum cone itself, well so long as you dont fall on your pack/kick it,etc ..i dont see any durability problems. Cool thing about the cones is that the aluminum ones have the option of running esbit/alcohol, and the Ti cones, can do all that, as well as burn wood!

How does the Cone perform in poor (windy, rainy) weather? It does great in windy weather, because the whole cone acts as a windscreen. Rainy weather? well you'll probably have a harder time with this, unless you cook in a vestibule, but thats always dodgy unless you're using an alcohol stove with a very small flame (which the caldera cone stove does not have)

Titanium is really crappy at conducting heat evenly. Whether the handles get hot, depends on your set up. If you use a cone, the handles partially get hit by the flame of the stove, so yes they get kinda hot…just use an extra sock to pick it up. However, when i don't use a cone, and I use something where the flame is more or less under the cup (like a canister stove, esbit. or just a smaller alcohol stove, i can pick up the cup by its handles without any problem. I've never desired a neoprene caddy with any of my cups. I do use a fabric cozy with my freezer bag meals, to trap the heat of the freshly boiled water better. Thats the benefit of having a cozy. Once your water hits boiling, you can stop your stove, and pour the water into your meal. Then put it all into the cozy…and itll hold the heat, losing only a few degrees, for a Loooooooong time. Makes meals that require simmering, very fuel conservative. You can also make a cheap reflectix cozy for your pot, and it cost you less than 10 bux ( you need reflectix material, and the reflective tape to hold it together). I bought the materials at Orchard Supply. Both the fabric cozy, and/or the reflectix cozy is lighter than the neoprene used on the Jetboil Cozy.

As far as fuel is concerned, esbit is probably the hardest to come by. Alcohol is easy to find even in a non-outdoor setting. You can burn anything from yellow HEET, found at any autoparts store/walmart/ 7-11, to everclear grain alc, to actual denatured alcohol. You could even burn rubbing alc…its super sooty and has low heat, but it works. Canister's are easily found anywhere where they sell campgoods. In my experience you can run any brand of canister with any brand of stove (outside of pure propane). So i've ran snowpeak with my jetboil, jetboil fuel with my optimus, etc

"Looking to get a somewhat efficient stove that's pretty easy to use and will last a while."

IMO, the Primus Micron is worth a look. Excellent fuel economy, durable, easy to use. Downside, relatively high CO output according to Roger Caffin's article on canister stoves. Easily dealt with as far as I'm concerned, once you know it's an issue.

Konrad Chen-thanks for all the information! Any chance you could send me a link to where I could find the compact Caldera you were talking about? Since I'm just planning on using the stove for solo meals and drinks, a system that I can completely store and protect in a 600 mL cup sounds perfect. Not sure if I'd ever actually use the wood-burning option of the titanium version, but it really seems nice to have that capability, and if it'll last longer I'm willing to save up the extra few bucks.

Does the SP mug come with a sack for it or anything like that? Just wondering how I'd keep all the stove components from falling out, assuming I went with the compact caldera and therefore didn't use the caddy option.

I see that Snow Peak offers their 600 mL mugs in a single or double wall Ti model; I'm assuming that single wall is the way to go here, it looks a lot lighter.

As soon as I figure this out, I just need to find myself a nice spork! Though I suppose a true UL-er would just whittle a pair of chopsticks from nearby twigs to prevent having to carry a utensil…

John:

Single wall…..and single wall only for your cooking mugs. The point behind double wall mugs is for insulation. So, at the lowest level, you don't want to have the thing you have holding the water you want to heat trying to insulate the water from being heated. At the next level up, you don't want a double wall vessel as a cooking vessel because the gap between the outer and inner wall is full of some sort of gas (probably just air). Heating it could cause it to expand and potentially explode (though I've never heard of that actually happening).

Here's the link to our ULC stuff:

http://www.traildesigns.com/caldera-tt-ulc.html

Send me mail directly to randATtraildesignsDOTcom with any other questions….and thanks for the interest!

Rand :-)