Vibram Five Fingers??

So you folks now running in Five Fingers (and why aren't they called Five Toes?), do you heel strike or forefoot strike when running in them? I'm a heel striker now, should I 'convert' if I'm going to try running in them? Just curious.

Craig, did you find you changed your strike in the one run you took in them?

Noel– a blast from the past! I, too, ran in those bright blue with white Onitsuka Tigers in the 70's. I loved those shoes…

And I have a pair of VFF classics that I bought recently. I am planning to try them for running (if it will quit snowing every night!). I have run short distances in them and find that I automatically run on the forefoot. I'm normally not a strong heel-striker, but I definitely land more forward on my foot with the VFFs.

"O yeah, Tristan, aren't nike frees great? Love mine. Those really really feel like slippers to me"

Yeah, I love them so far. I have the 5.0s but I'd really like to try the 3.0s but it looks like they either don't make them anymore or I just can't find them.

As to running with the VFFs, I would think heel striking with these would not work out so well, luckily for me, my heels don't even really touch the ground in my natural running stride, I stay up on my forefoot the whole time.

Also, whoever posted about the new tigers, I've tried them. They were pretty comfortable but they didn't last very long, and I was just using them for regular street shoes, no hiking or even running.

I just got my FiveFingers a couple days ago and I instantly switched away from heel striking when I run in these. It just happens naturally because heel striking is too harsh in bare feet and minimal footwear.

Heel striking will send shock waves up from heel to brain. My track coach back in the Tiger era tried to convert me into a heel striker. It just slowed me down and hurt. He more or less gave up trying to change up my stride. Next era was the overly cushioned, supportive period. Also the injury era. A decade ago enlightenment from my then 4 y/o niece. Watching her run (always at full speed) she just floated. Barefooted or flip-flop forefoot striker. After reading Christopher McDougall's book last summer I switched over to V5F. Past experience, observation and the book has convinced me that heel strike stride is "unnatural".

As everyone mentioned, youre naturally going to change your stride. Heel striking is just impossible with these shoes. However, my initial experiences (first 5 or so cumulative miles with them) showed that I subconsciously was trying to over compensate, and found myself landing strictly on the balls of my feet…almost like running on my toes. This is what the body does when its in full sprint, but trying to sustain this motion for a long period of time (ie joggiing) is just punishing on the calves, and actually lead to foot pains I had never felt before. I felt pains on the top of my foot, as in the other side of my foot arch. Did some more research on Barefoot Ted's website and found that this was a common ailment among people who are new to BF running. He gave some stretch ideas in the FAQ, and it cured my problems. I have since started landing in more of a midfoot strike. Be warned though, these might not be right for everyone. I'm dealing with a heel pain right now, which i think might have been the result of using vibrams. Its not Plantar Fasciitis but its still a dull constant pain on far back of my heel. Thankfully, I have access to some of the best sports doctors ( i go to lawschool at Boston College, and have access to the undergraduate sports doctors) and he actually recommended that i go back to my asics with blue superfeet. He did mention that there are 2 schools of thought…technology vs barefoot, and he happened to be of the former. I dunno though…my old asics gave me horrible runners knee due to heel striking, so for the moment, im trying out nike free's which allow a natural midfoot strike, have more cushioning than VFF, but lack the sensitivity of them..Kind of a nice middle ground between my asics and my vibrams. If you get the vibrams and are new to this style of running…START SLOW! its reallly easy to overdo it…your calves will let you know you F-ed up the morning after. haha

on another note, i saw a couple at bed bath and beyond today, both wearing black vibram classics. The dude looked like eurotrash* with his pant legs rolled up like capris. I didn't see a bicycle nearby to justify his rolled pant legs, so I'm assuming he wanted the world to make sure that they were seeing his awesome shoes. You guys on bpl better get on these shoes quick…its the next big thing :D

*no disrespect to the european bpl'ers I use this term loosely and just for humorous effect. Feel free to substitute it with "jersey shore" for the same effect

What the hell, right? Went to REI and the wife was really into the idea so I tried on a pair as well. I have high-ish arches, so I was a little worried about how that would work out with a relatively flat looking shoe. The models on hand were limited, so I tried one on that had the strap across the top. This managed to pull the insole right up to my arch, so that was kind of nice.

The sales girl was actually wearing a pair herself and seemed knowledgeable on sizing, etc. I began asking about the KSO Treks and, as if reading my mind, she asked, "Are you planning on hiking in them?"

"Well," I said, "I've considered it."

She simply gave me the "maternal" look and said, "No. No, don't do that," while shaking her head. Seems she wore hers up in Arkansas and while great for water crossings and camp wear, she found them to be not so fun on the rocky soil there. Granted, she wasn't wearing the Treks, but those are only a slightly beefier sole with the big upgrade being the leather upper.

The wife, on the other hand, absolutely loved them. However, when it came down to it, they were really expensive water crossing/camp shoes. So rather than drop money on those, we used our member coupon on a nice set of Merrel hiking shoes that were very similar to mine. Her current boots are crap.

The wife will probably buy a pair in the future, but I'll probably take a scale to wal-mart and pick out some cheap water shoes or sandals with enough straps to anchor them to my feet in rivers. To be honest, if I had 100 bucks, I'd get the Treks, but I'm a student and my wife is a teacher, so cheap target/wal mart water shoes must take budget priority.

Craig,

I never noticed either of your complaints, but just took a close look at mine. The front ridge doesn't bother me at all, never even thought about it or felt. I also have the same side seam, but didn't know it until now.

To be honest, I don't seen where these would fit into your gear. You already run barefooted, and you flats are lighter than the FFs.

You can spend $5 of your $99 on a Starbucks frapacino for me at the end our our C2C-PCT-Jo Pond loop. Starbucks is a block away from our return to the cars. :)

The seam that was bugging me was only on the right foot- it looked poorly sewn.

But you're right, I just really have no logical place for these- there are faster running shoes, lighter camp shoes, real barefoot is OK with me, and I don't use "stream crossing" shoes.

But they felt cool otherwise.

I'll gladly buy you two frapuccinos Nick.

I just got from a 2 night, fairly technical 20 mile hiking trip which was my first one wearing the FiveFingers KSO.

LIKES:
These shoes are comfortable on my feet. There's no rubbing, chaffing or blisters. It also feels really nice when you are walking on soft ground. I also like how light they are obviously. I crossed a number of rocky/talus slope areas and they felt pretty good actually. Grip was better than expected on slippery rocks. They also dry nice and fast. No durability issues.

DISLIKES:
They are still taking me a long time to get on. Maybe it's my toe shape, but after a week of use it still takes me 1-2 minutes per foot which is too long. I dislike this when I gotta run for a pee.

They also seem a bit too dangerous to really trust. I got 3 good pinky toe stubs over the 20 miles and I can imagine breaking a pinky toe would only be a matter of time if you were running or hiking faster than I was. I also found that I was spending too much focus looking on where I was stepping so I was losing out on some of the views.

Other smaller complaints are that they are cold without socks. Obviously this would be ideal for some trips, but using them as your only shoes with highs around 45F and lows around 30F with no socks is tolerable but not great. They also aren't going to protect your feet from bug bites in the summer which may be of some concern.

CONCLUSION: Like Nick Gatel, due mainly to the seemingly significant risk of breaking a toe out there, I won't be hiking in these very often. I like several things about them and I may take them on select trips, but I don't plan to use them in cold, buggy or highly technical trail conditions.

I got some KSOs recently from REI with my dividend and I really like them thus-far. I have enjoyed them on shorter trail-runs (~2 mi). I dont have the foot/calf strength to use them for longer runs. For just walking, I dont think Id have a problem placing my feet and could avoid breaking my foot but whether they are good for backpacking is a question I havent settled yet, gotta take em out first.
-They are terrible in mud (walked through the mud just for the sensation).
-They breathe VERY well and don't rub me at all.
-And I have to say, it takes me less than thirty seconds to get them on, my toes find their place really easily. If it were taking me two minutes I would think about returning them just because I dont think I could handle the frustration.
-If you trail-run as an activity I think you can definitely benefit from these as far as foot strike/stride efficiency and strength.
-at 11oz hard to justify them as camp shoes only when backpacking

trying to judge them objectively, but really I just LOVE them. comfy, quirky, and beneficial.

It seems that the amount of time it takes to put them on has a lot to do with your toes. I have small feet (size 40) but my toes are fairly fat for my foot size, so I need to wiggle each toe into it's place and I can't do it all at once so I get each toe in 1/4 of the way and then I get them in 1/2 way etc. Slimmer toes and/or toes that line up nicely with the holes (my pinky doesn't) would go on much quicker.

Actually they get easier to put on over time. Your toes get trained where to go, your brain follows your toes, and I think the material stretches a little.

And they STINK after a while. You have to wash them once in a while… but then most of us wash our socks more ofter than our VFFs.

Been playing around with the new KSO Trek model this past week. They definitely provide better protection and grip than any other previous vibrams including the previous KSO. It's the first FF I'd consider doing a long backpacking trip on. Any users out there for this year's PCT or AT?

The increased weight and more loss of feel of the ground mean you might not want to ditch the more minimal FF for regular use, but this stuff sure beats any trail shoe in the market for near barefoot feel and flexibility.

Also, the kangaroo leather is stretchy, breathes OK and doesn't stink like the older synthetic stuff.

"-And I have to say, it takes me less than thirty seconds to get them on, my toes find their place really easily. If it were taking me two minutes I would think about returning them just because I dont think I could handle the frustration."

that's kinda funny, it takes me no extra time to put on the VFFs compared to regular shoes. but if i am wearing injinji socks…. dang. those things take me forever to get on. very frusterating.

I have two pairs: the KSO's and the Flows. I wear the KSO's as three-season hiking shoes with the white sock liners/ toe socks. If the weather might turn cold, I add the woolen "Tundra" toe socks.

I wear the Flows with the wool toe socks during winter when I'm not expecting to slog through snow. The Neoprene + wool socks keep my feet plenty warm, even when they get wet at stream crossings.

The Flows are a pain to get on at first, especially around the toe area. Neoprene isn't very stretchy. However, they get easier with each wearing.

The KSO toe areas break in much faster than the Flows.

Can't say enough good stuff about the Vibrams. They are great on most surfaces, especially the bane of most trail runners, wet, slimy rocks. They stick like glue to solid surfaces, and if you're going uphill on mud you jam your toes into the mud, and up you go.

Stargazer

Oh, one more thing. If you buy the Flows, buy them a full size larger than the other types. The break in time will be shorter (more room for the toes) and you can adjust the fit at the heel with the heel strap.

Stargazer

Does anyone know where I would most likely be able to find a pair of KSO or KSO Trek? All of the likely suspects seem to be out of stock of my size (40).

Andy,

This is one of those purchases you don't want to make over the Internet, IMO. The fit is pretty touchy, and you'll want to try on various sizes.

Clintonville Outfitters in Columbus carries the full line, but they are sometimes temporarily out of some of the sizes, especially in the most popular hiking version, which happens to be the KSO's.

I assume you've called many of the possibilities near your locale in Ohio, however. As I recall, I had to wait a bit for the KSO's to come in in my size, but I got luckier with the Flows.

Above all, don't settle for a size that doesn't quite fit your toes. It's better to wait and get the pair that's exactly right for your feet, toes especially.

Stargazer

I did not have anyluck with local outfitters carrying the VFF's of any style so I had to resort to the internet for my KSO's… 3 pairs later I finally found the size for that works best for me. Wish I had a local store that carried them.

It was defeating getting new shoes and have them not fit then have to wait another few days to try another pair.

My best guess is that as these get more popular/main stream we will start seeing them in more local stores and/or chains so finding them will be much easier.

Good luck tracking some down

EDIT: this place has a few in the size 40…

http://www.kayakshed.com/vibram-five-fingers/mens-five-finger-kso

Thanks Thomas and Johnathan. Clintonville Outfitters has a Facebook page which says they’re out of almost all styles and colors. I’m probably going to just order 2-3 pair of my guesstimated sizes online and try each. I’ll probably have to wait until REI has them in stock. Even Vibram’s own website doesn’t have much in stock.

I had to order mine online (through REI, shipped free to my local store)– and found that, by measuring my foot according to the directions on the Vibram website, I had no trouble getting the right size. My classics take about 15 second per foot to get on, less every time (your toes DO learn where to go after a few times).

I bought a pair of these when they first came out with them. I never could get my toes into them no matter how hard I pulled and pushed. They just didn't fit. What little I was able to try them out around the house, I didn't like them. I ended up giving them away after having no luck selling them on craigslist.

Recently I bought some Feelmax Osmas. If you want to have shoes that feel barefoot, I think these feel way more barefoot than vibrams. They're like moccasins. Extremely thin and light.

I recently bought a pair (KSO – Size 44) through zbsports.com because REI didn't have my size. They were shipped quickly and I love them. I would wear them everywhere if I could . They are so comfortable and my feet feel awake when I wear them….if that makes any sense.

I don't know if they ship this particular product to the USA, but MEC.ca has the KSO's and other FiveFinger shoes for $85.