Topic

Caldera Cone System


Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Caldera Cone System

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 59 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1586440
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    Hi Ben,
    Are you referring to my SP600 ULC set up, with & without potscreen, etc? Confused.
    Gordon

    #1586459
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Hi Gordon:

    Yeah, I was interested in knowing more about your system. Thanks.

    #1586488
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Yea, im interested too actually. I have just the normal full size aluminum caldera for my sp600. If its not too much to ask, anyway you could just do a bench test indoors, with heet/denatured alky? Both with and without windscreen? thanks in advance!

    #1586491
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    Hi Ben,
    This is actually Vers.2 of the ULC cone for the SP600. The Vers. 1 they originally sent me had no potscreen and had more vent holes in the cone. My test results with it were OK, but not great. When I contacted Rand & Russ with the data they agreed it wasn't up to expectations and went back to the drawing board. A few days later Vers 2 arrived in my mailbox. This one has fewer/smaller holes, a looser fit to the pot and also came with the extra "potscreen" piece shown in my photos. So far I've only done one test with the potscreen. For that run I put .625 oz of fuel in the the stove. The water (2cups) got hot but did not boil. So it seemed to be of limited benefit since I was getting a rolling boil on .8 oz without the potscreen. As I mentioned though, Rand & Russ say they're getting good results with it, so I need to run some more tests, and I'll try some HEET as well. I think where the potscreen will likely shine is when it's windy, so I think it's worth carrying even if you only use it/need it occasionally.

    And to answer the other question, yes, I already had their 12-10 stove and their Gram Cracker, so they struck me a deal for the Ti Cone by itself.

    G

    #1586492
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Ah, thanks for the additional info.

    #1586500
    Eugene Smith
    BPL Member

    @eugeneius

    Locale: Nuevo Mexico

    @ Gordon,

    This has been an exciting thread to follow; thank you Douglas for posting your ULC Ti Tri SP600 kit earlier this week, I have that same setup w/ the windscreen ordered and on the way this week from Rand and Russ @ Trail Designs, your photos and review helped me narrow down my decision. I juggled back and forth between getting a Caldera Ti-Tri kit for my MSR Titan or a setup like your ULC SP600 Caldera Ti Tri configuration and landed on the weight saving compact simplicity of the SP600 for solo use. I've been ogling a Caldera Ti-Tri for a while now.

    I'll run it through the paces before April 8 and familiarize myself with the whole kit as I'm doing a short 4 day in the Gila Wilderness and will be depending on wood for fuel. I opted to upgrade to the Inferno package w/ the ti-floor in my order so I'll post some pictures and feedback in a couple weeks. Hendrik M of Hikinginfinland.com posted a very convincing video review on his excellent blog of the Trail Designs Caldera Ti-Tri Inferno in action:

    Trail Designs Ti-Tri Inferno

    #1586506
    Renais A
    BPL Member

    @renais

    I'm considering a Ti-Tri setup, and want to be able to use it with a remote canister stove as well as alcohol and wood. I'm curious about what remote canister systems folks have used with this setup. Do you use a stove that already has the canister at the end of a hose, or do you use one of the remote adapters? What are the height restrictions for a canister stove in the system? Are there issues with the stove burner getting too hot because of the confined space? Thanks for the info.
    Jim

    #1588524
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    OK, for Konrad, Ben and others I've done some more test runs with the SP600 ULC Cone. These were done indoors, with 2 cups 60° F water, and 68° F air temp. The fuel for each test was HEET in the yellow bottle:

    WITHOUT potscreen the water came to a rolling boil in 9:10 using .875 oz of HEET. The fuel burned for 1 additional minute.

    WITH the potscreen the water came to a rolling boil in 7:45 using .75 oz HEET. The fuel burned for just 15 additional seconds.

    So under these conditions maybe a 10 to 15 percent improvement using the potscreen vs. not. Like I say though, the screen might make a big difference in a windy situation.

    Hope that helps!

    G

    #1588526
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    I Love kitchen counter science!

    Nice.

    #1588528
    EndoftheTrail
    BPL Member

    @ben2world-2

    Hi Gordon:

    Thanks for the additional info!

    I'm showing my ignorance here, but I always thought the cone served as the windscreen? Is the "ULC" a two-piece system — with separate cone and a windscreen?

    Also, I always thought the top edge of the cone serves to prop up the cup — but now, it looks like two stakes are required?

    #1588533
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    Ben,
    Traditional Cones are as you describe.

    This one of the ULC versions with the screen cut down enough to fit into the cup – making it Compact.

    #1588535
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    thanks for the update! The other night, i had some kitchen science of my own…with esbit. It was a terrible idea. My apartment is pretty small, and the esbit odors made that even clearer.

    #1588538
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    Hi Ben,
    The original Caldera Cone was exactly as you described. The ULC however is an almost completely different animal. The ULC is designed to fit inside the pot or mug, the original cones were too tall to do that. They had to be stored separately which was a complaint. So these are shorter, store in the pot, use stakes to support the pot vs. suspending it from the rim. By nature these aren't as efficient either, but they're not bad. They added the potscreen to this model to increase its efficiency, which perhaps is not as good as some of the other ULC/pot combos due to the peculiarities of this mug. As far as I know it's the only ULC that has the screen. Hope that helps.

    Ooops, Greg beat me to it!

    G

    #1588541
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    I need to double check sometime, when I get more HEET, but I think the results of your 2nd test with the windscreen, were about the same as my tests with a SP 600, and a original full size Caldera cone. I was never able to achieve a full 2 cup boil, with the .5 oz alcohol efficiency that trail designs advertises. Im running the same minibuldesign lid as you as well. I'll report back in a couple of days when I have a chance to get more fuel

    If i had to do it all over again, I'd probably get the compact version like you. I currently store the kit, the same way that Greg does on page 1 (half the caddy nested into the titanium cup) but this leaves no room for my lid. I'd much prefer your setup, with a rubberband holding the lid in place.

    #1588542
    Eugene Smith
    BPL Member

    @eugeneius

    Locale: Nuevo Mexico

    Hey Ben,

    The ULC is simply put a compact version of the full size Caldera cone system offered by Traildesigns. The ULC version of the Caldera Cone is a single piece of titanium or aluminum (depending on what material you order) and fits snugly into the supported pots and vessels listed on the Traildesigns website: Supported Pots and Mugs . The reason Gordon has stakes is to raise the pot above the flame source. The abbreviated height on the ULC version doesn't accommodate the fuel source (wood, esbit, alcohol) and the pot inside the cone like the fullsize Caldera Cone system.

    Best thing to do to not further confuse anyone is refer you to their websites model info and comparison chart, the differences are explained pretty well:

    Trail Designs Caldera Cone Comparison Chart

    #1588543
    Eugene Smith
    BPL Member

    @eugeneius

    Locale: Nuevo Mexico

    Sorry, didn't realize my redundancy in my last post, everyone beat me to it and Gordon summed it up :)

    #1588546
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    >>The other night, i had some kitchen science of my own…with esbit. It was a terrible idea. My apartment is pretty small, and the esbit odors made that even clearer.<<

    Which is why I gave up on it. I like the idea of Esbit, I just don't like the reality of it. So I'm off the wagon and back to my beloved alcohol. Glurg.

    G

    #1588551
    Greg Mihalik
    Spectator

    @greg23

    Locale: Colorado

    When I started last weeks Keg-F and Keg-H test – in the kitchen – the Keg-H was new. And as the paint started to cook off I knew I was in trouble….

    Everything quickly moved to the garage, the doors and windows were opened, and box fan set into motion.

    I got away with it, but just barely.

    #1590979
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Okay, so i ran a couple bench top tests in my own house. Water was 75 degrees (room temp for me). Elevation is around 200 feet. Using a Caldera full size aluminum cone, for a SP 600. I used a lexan lid that was clear, so i never had to lift the lid to check if the water was boiling or not. My results after attempting to boil 2 cups of water, with the following amounts of alc.

    1/2 ounce alc – Tried 3 times, never boiled. Flame always extinguished around 5mins 30 secs. TrailDesigns claims that 1/2 an ounce should be able to boil 2 cups of water. A kitchen test is probably going to be the most optimal conditions anyones going to get. Not gonna lie, was a lil flustered at this. So shocked, i had to test it 3 times. I'll post a video of this if needed. Anyone out there able to get their sp600 setup to boil 2 cups with 1/2 ounce of alc? Could I have a defective cone?

    5/8 ounce- Was having trouble with my timer, so no recorded time, however the stove extinguished right as the water was in the very very very early stages of boiling. I wouldn't trust a boil with this amount of alc, considering that my water will almost never be 75 degrees (water comes from my hydration system, which is usually chilled), nor will conditions ever be as optimal outside

    3/4 ounce. – Rolling Boil at 6 mins, stove finally extinguished at 7:34

    So in all honesty, I would have preferred the ULC version that stores in the SP600. The weight savings, due to fuel efficiency, I get (which is barely anything) with the full size cone, vs your compact cone, are so negligible, and so easily offset by the weight of the extra caddy that I have to carry to store my cone.

    However, was your cone custom built? I don't see them selling the ULC for the sp600. Also, looks like only titanium ULC cones at the moment.

    My theory on the .5 ounce advertised boil efficiency, is that this depends largely on what pot you are using. I bet if i had a cone system for an MSR titan kettle (which is wider than my sp600) then maybe I can achieve a 2 cup boil with .5 ounce. Also, my other theory is that if i were using .75 ounces of alc, and were able to extinguish the flame right after the water started boiling, then maybe there might be .25 ounces left unused in the stove. Getting those .25 ounces back into the bottle is another story, and not worth my effort in my opinion

    #1590983
    Johnny Gish
    Spectator

    @jtgish

    Locale: Colorado

    esbit
    i had a rolling boil at 7min 57sec and a total burn time of 16:37. water temp was approx. 65 degrees, air temp was 48 degrees.

    #1590985
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    >>However, was your cone custom built? I don't see them selling the ULC for the sp600. Also, looks like only titanium ULC cones at the moment. <<

    Hi Konrad,
    Yes, my Ti SP600 ULC was custom built. If you're interested in one I'm sure Rand would be happy to fix you up. And yes, I agree, your Titan Kettle could easily be more efficient. Pot aspect ratio plays a significant role. I don't think the SP600 is an optimal shape, but I'm quite fond of it nonetheless.

    Gordon

    #1590987
    Konrad .
    BPL Member

    @konrad1013

    Hey Gordon, this is really just OCD of me, but im curious to know if you could weigh your caldera setup (everything but the sp600, stove, and the lid). So i guess it would be the cone, 2 stakes, and windscreen. Im curious to know how it compares to the fullsize's weight. Thanks

    #1591032
    Christian Schilling
    Member

    @schg

    Locale: Frankfurt / St. Louis

    During our recent trip hill walking the mountains of Tramuntana in Mallorca we put our Caldera Cone system (tall original version for the MSR Kettle) through a good test. Our experiences with it might benefit others who are thinking about purchasing a Calder Cone system and which one of those available.

    The conditions in those mountains were often rather harsh, with strong winds, low temperatures of air and water and us impatiently in the need of some hot food and brew after a long day of walking in the cold. The terrain we set up camp were also often not ideal, not always a stable, level ground because of stones and what not and steady gusts of wind hitting at us most of the time.

    One other unexpected challenge was the kind of denatured alcohol we were able to find locally: it was the kind that almost did not burn. It took forever to light and burned badly. We had to use 30ml instead of the usual 15ml to get 500ml of water to boil and that was under ideal conditions. This meant with winds and cold water we sometimes didn't even reach a boil before the flame went out. Luckily though it was still hot enough to hydrate our food in a cozy.

    With the Caldera Cone this all was hardly a problem though. Once we got the fuel lit, the water would get hot, the cone would always guarantee a stable stand for our pot. As we were wild camping and hauling our water from wells or mountain streams along the way, losing 500ml of water due to pushing your pot over would have been very frustrating to say the least.
    In our opinion the Caldera Cone is a highly reliable piece of kit and was our most favorite piece of gear on that trip.

    Regarding the ULC Caldera I was reading the comments and opinions before that the ULC was a little less efficient than the tall version but that was actually neglectable concerning the amount of fuel saved / brought compared to the packsize and weight savings of the setup itself.
    So, although I was also very interested in the ULC version for those very reasons, I am now thinking that the results probably wouldn't have been very satisfying in Mallorca and am unsure if the ULC would have been up to it there. The tall Caldera Cone wraps around the pot and traps most of the heat inside. That's not a new revelation, but for me it means that it is not just a bit quicker or more fuel efficient then something else: it means this system still works when others don't.

    For normal walks I am sure the ULC fits the bill nicely and I am still tempted because you can pack everything up in your pot. But for more 'extreme' conditions I will stick to the original one.
    Of course had we taken a Caldera TriTri we could have used wood which there was plenty of around. So maybe thats what we should be getting. . . ;)

    #1591064
    Gordon Smith
    BPL Member

    @swearingen

    Locale: Portland, Oregon

    Hi Konrad,

    Cone + potscreen: 1.25 oz

    Stakes: .375 oz

    Total: 1.625 oz

    Curious, what is the weight for your full size SP600 cone?

    As for the ULC, I'll be doing a bikepack trip in a couple of weeks. I think I'll just leave the potscreen at home. I'll report back.

    G

    #1591108
    John Drollette
    Member

    @tradja

    Locale: Central Oregon

    A local buddy that is more into the forums than I am showed me the Caldera on a trip last summer. I was ready to be impressed, but starting a minute or so later, my vintage Pepsi-G boiled a larger quantity of water in a 3L Ti pot faster than the mini-pot on his Caldera (same starting water temp, cool ambient temp). The Caldera might be more efficient, but it was not noticably so in our admittedly informal and multivariable test.

    The rolled windscreen seemed bulky and vulnerable too, but I did not pack or carry it.

    Still, given that my wife and I want to boil a usable amount of water in a reasonable amount of time in the real world, frequently in a thru-hike setting, I have not yet seen the advantage (to us) of the Caldera.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 59 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Forum Posting

A Membership is required to post in the forums. Login or become a member to post in the member forums!

Get the Newsletter

Get our free Handbook and Receive our weekly newsletter to see what's new at Backpacking Light!

Gear Research & Discovery Tools


Loading...