pack question

Check out the REI UL45. It has an aluminum stay making it very easy to adjust. And there’s no need to use a pad as a frame. It’s on sale right now for $73.99

http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47856709&parent_category_rn=4500574&vcat=REI_SEARCH

You might want to look at the Granite Gear Vapor Trail. It has a frame sheet, but (I think) no stay. I’ve found it to be my pack of choice – one of the things I like best is how the frame sheet conforms to my back. It feels more like putting on a jacket than strapping on a pack.

The only limitation is that it’s rated for a 30 pound capacity – but I’m assuming that with your back condition, you’ve already pared as much weight as possible. (I carry a 13 or 14 pound base load; I’m not a true ultralighter – more of a “lighter” I guess.)

Thanks for all ideas, I’ll certainly check them out

Julian, first off, if you haven’t done so already (you probably have, but just in case), check with your doctor about the advisability of carrying a pack and the maximum weight to carry for extended periods (3-4days – the length of your trek). Ok, probably didn’t need to mention this, but some Forum participants and my wife might reprimand me if i didn’t.

Second, and you’re the best judge of how this will work with your physical condition and volume of your current gear kit, how about a totally different approach – i used the following approach once when my back was acting up (i don’t like to be “left behind” if i can at least walk), viz. i used two packs. How does this work?

Pack #1 = a large 1000 cu. in. to 1420 cu in hunter’s lumbar pack with Buddy-Lok attachments for extra, readily accessible gear access or carrying extra water (depends upon the kind of Buddy-Lok accessory pockets you choose to use). NOT an UL pack, but excellent waist belt and lumbar padding. The typical Buddy-Lok pockets (2 to 4 depending upon the pack) expand capacity by 70 to 144 cu in each and the water bottle holders can hold a 24oz to tall, narrow 32oz/1L bottle each. These jumbo-sized lumbar packs typically come with detachable, padded shoulder harness – so, you can choose how much weight your upper body bears. The waist belt alone is capable of holding up to 15lb without slipping – it’s wide (i.e. tall) and well-padded as is the lumbar pad of the pack.

Hunter’s packs eliminate the need for most of your stuff sacks as they typically have several-to-many small,fairly water resistant pockets (other than the zippers on most, not all of them – some are waterproof for electronic gear stowage).

You can couple this pack with…

Pack #2 is a small 2L hydration pack with bladder (you can remove the bladder if you don’t need it). The larger ones have an additional 800 cu in of storage – i put the poncho-tarp and windshirt, water treatement (or pump), etc in this pack. If you use a 1000cu in lumbar pack, this eaisly fits on the back (over the lumbar pack’s shoulder harness if you are using it) without extending far enough down to contact the lumbar pack. Like this, it’s easy to don and doff at water stops or to access wind and rain gear, or whatever you’ve stored there.

NOT the cleanest system, or the lightest, but i was only carrying 6-8 lb on my back (most of it water) and 12-14 in the lumbar pack. Also, a nice side-effect of this arrangement is that my CG was pretty low and i felt pretty agile even considering the healing ruptured muscles in my upper back (an old PowerLifting injury – reinjured).

Sorry, i never weighed the packs (there didn’t seem to be any point) as both were for hunter’s – so heavy duty, abrasion resistant fabric, fairly water resistant, very quiet (of course), and comfortable to wear. These characteristics are typical of hunter’s gear and so it weighs in a bit more than L/UL gear.

Keys to use are small volume kit or shorter treks. You’ll need a down bag/quilt due to most (not all) of the packs NOT having one large compartment – two smaller main compartments on my pack – bag in one and bivy and synth. hi-loft jacket and pants in the other; other gear in the many smaller pockets. VERY easy on the back however. The packs may add a couple of pounds versus a single UL pack, but given my back injury last year, it allowed me to at least be out on the trail and the exercise (in my case) was good for my back.

If your kit is small enough just the largest of the lumbar packs and four larger Buddy-Loks will get you close to 2000 cu in of total volume. You could also bungee a couple of 24oz water bottles to your pack straps AR-style and hang one or two similar sized ones off of the two extra D-rings on the lumbar pack waist belt. In this case just the lumbar pack alone might work for you. Though with four of the larger over-stuffed Buddy-Loks on the waist belt, you will feel a bit like you’re overweight around the mid-section (2large and 2mediums sized ones work much better – in my experience). Using just the lumbar pack, or coupling it with a small hydration pack, results in reduced sweating in the thoracic region of the back – a nice benefit on hot days.

Check Cabela’s or BassPro websites for the current gear available. Typically, hunter’s packs are located under “Hunting Accessories”. The gear is pretty inexpensive. Depending upon the gear one chooses, under $100 can get two packs and $40-$50 bucks more for four Buddy-Loks. Depending upon when and where you hike, you might want to wear something bright as this gear is all-camo – don’t want to be mistaken for “game” and have a politician shoot you sight-unseen.

If you really do have a serious problem and have a little extra cash try McHale’s packs. The packs have twin stays of a very high quality shapeable metal and a very good belt system and Dan works with you like nobody else will. In the end you get a lot for your money.

Excellent post paul, thank you. Last weekend I did a three day trip using my old Camera Care systems lumbar pack. I ripped out the cmaera compartments and it worked REALLY well. But I wasn’t carrying food, so the bulk was low. I’ll certainly try your suggestions – thanks! One problem I had was the pack kept slipping but I used a pair of neoprene (stretchy) optech camera bag straps and that helped . I’ll try oyur suggeestion and let you now what I end up with

I was thinking about going in that very direction a couple of years ago, when I was getting back into backpacking and wanted get light (or at least lighter) without spending any money. My theory was that I could get the cubic inches I needed by assembling a lumbar pack/backpack combo from assorted parts an pieces I had lying around the garage and in closets. I think I was getting there, too, but then I found a marked-down Granite Gear Virga and just bought that.

But this is also the approach taken by lots of Forest Service firefighters. They carry combo hip belt/backpacks. They can remove the backpack, but the shoulder straps, which connect to both the front and back of the belt, stay on.

I bought one of these at a thrift store — there I go, spending money in spite of myself, more out of curiosity than anything else.

It’s way overbuilt for our purposes — bomb-proof webbing, thick packcloth, lots of metal hardware — but the idea may have merit for lightweighters, and especially for those with a real need to keep the weight off their backs.

In fact, I love the comparison to giant backpacks with massive hipbelts meant to transfer the weight to your hips. You can do that, or, as Paul describes, just put the weight on your hips in the first place.

to go off on a tangent, i have also been eyeing various lumbar packs with an eye toward weekend trail runs (run/hike out one day, spend the night, same thing back). my first intuition was that a lumbar pack might be more stable and bounce less while running, but then i wondered whether carrying the weight higher might allow your spine/torso musculature to cushion some of the shock. my back is in fine shape, but my knees aren’t, so i’d rather let my back do some of the work.

those who run while carrying UL/SUL loads, how do you do it?

Study the adventure racing packs. Light loads and stable packs (hip bands and sternum straps).

I’m intriuged with lumbar packs just for the minimalism. For a prospective August overnighter, I tried mocking up the REI flash pack with a tiny summer sleeping bag and an inflatable pad– the latter because it could be folded before rolling it. With that and a Gregory Wasp lumbar pack I could almost pull it off. I would probably need to resort to using a short RidgeRest pad and strapping that vertically to the daisy chain outside the pack. Water and heavier essentials went in the lumbar pack and bottle holsters.

It’s a little too tight. A pack about 1500ci and one of the larger Mountainsmith lumbar packs would leave more room for food and a couple more clothing items.

It can be done. The weight of the pack will increase over something like a G-5 because of the extra straps, zippers, and hardware if nothing else. I haven’t seen a silnylon lumbar pack except the most basic envelope with a zipper and a ribbon-like belt. I would want something a little more engineered to handle the weight. That doesn’t mean is has to be overbuilt, which I think the Mountainsmith packs tend to be.

Another option would be to have a toungue that goes up from the top of the lumbar pack to the bottom of the backpack– it would keep the lumbar section from slipping down and act as a swivel between the two packs. Either one could still be used independently.

Getting to a solution for someone with spinal problems– I wonder if a wheelbarrow sort of arrangment would work. I’m imagining something with a Ti bicycle type frame and one wheel with a hand brake. Tow it up hill and walk behind coming down or on a flat. You could add a light harness to help take some stress off your arms, so your hands would just be stabilizing it.

Once you go there, it could transform into a lounge chair and be incorporated into your shelter too. If a market springs up, a carbon fiber frame would be very cool. I bet you could rock going down hill.

For just a “there & back again” weekend where nightime temps do not go below 55 deg., I often travel with a Lowe Alpine fanny pack – 400 ci

My normal gear kit is:
GG ground cloth
“Space Blanket” style emergency bag
MontBell wind pants
Patagonia Dragonfly wind shirt
Extra socks
Bug Headnet
Extras – Light, TP, MP1 tablets, ID, Cash, Truck Key, Deet, first aid, etc.
Empty 1 liter Platy bottle
6 Cliff Bars
Beef Jerky – no MSG
Dried Pineapple
Bandana, Whistle, small knife

I carry a Bota of Boulder 1 liter bota bottle over one shoulder.

The lumbar pack cinches down really well so there is no bouncing!!!

Keeps my back cool on the hottest days.

Emergency bag is waterproof and windproof and insect proof. Wear windshirt with headnet to keep from getting suffocated!!!! Can’t reuse very many times because the metalic lining is sprayed on and flakes off after a few uses. Also, not possible to refold this into the same volume as the factory did.

Anyway, this is just food for thought. It is possible to travel with very, very little gear if you choose carefully. Grandma Gatewood used to roll up in a shower curtain. An emergency blanket is the same type of concept, but much lighter.

Less is More.

My latest idea: use an Exped dry pack– the mesh packpack with a dry bag and a Nalgene lumbar pack– one of the models that come with backpack straps, or a Mountainsmith that has the mounts for accessory shoulder straps. There are many lumbar packs that could be adapted and any mountaneering repair shop could add whatever hardware you need.

If anyone needs a good repair shop, Rainy Pass Repair in Seattle has my approval.

The Exped dry pack has two d-rings on the bottom to add your own waist belt. In this case, just make a couple 1″ straps with snap hooks to attach the two packs together. This isn’t absolutely neccessary, but it would help keep the lumbar pack from sliding down– with my build, lumbar packs down’t have much to hang on :)

My thoughts are that you could put your soft items like clothes, sleeping bag, and pad in the upper pack and carry water and heavier items in the lumbar pack. You’ll get the option of using just the lumbar pack for day hikes and this is all off the shelf stuff.

The links between the two packs could be just elastic shock cord or 3/4″ to 1″ webbing with a snap hook on each end and ladder buckles for adjustment and a no-sew build.

Great ideas guys… here’s what i’m doing… I’ve a lowepro photo hipbelt. you can clip stuff to it or use it to support a bag. I’m getting my mother in law (an expert sewer with a paìr of industrial machines) to design and build a silnylon lumbar pack attached to the belt by a sleeve, echoing the lowepro designs. There will be a supporting bib going up my back with some mesh pockets, bastardised neoprene shoulder straps, I’ll send some pics when we have something to show…

I followed up with the Exped dry pack/lumbar pack idea. The Exped has two Delrin D-rings on the bottom to attach a strap for a waist belt– I assume making your own from snap hooks, buckle and webbing. It would be just for stabilization anayway. The D-rings go through a grosgrain loop and it was easy to revolve them in the loop so the straigh section of the D-ring was outside. I took a couple 1″ Delrin snap hooks and removed the snaps and put them on the D-rings on the Exped.

I got a Nalgene Aspect lumbar pack on Ebay last week and it came with removable shoulder straps. There is a large loop ring in the center of the Nalgene pack that is the attachment for the lower back of the Y formed by the shoulder straps. It was part of the design to be able to simply unthread the webbing and the fixed loop tucks into a sleeve in the pack.

The other ends of the shoulder straps on the Nalgene pack snap hook to D-rings on either side of the main compartment on the pack and the snap hooks now installed on the bottom of the Exped pack line up nicely with the D-rings on the Nalgene– snap them in place and you have a 1500ci waterproof back pack with a load bearing lumbar section with a 1.5 liter hydration bladder and 234ci/3.9L storage space.

It isn’t absolutely neccessary to tie a small pack and lumbar pack together this way– they could just both be worn in conjunction, but it does help stabilize the upper pack and keep the lumbar pack from sliding down. I imagine that the lumbar pack may pick up some of the load from the upper pack as it settles on top of it.

This isn’t terribly efficient weight-wise. Most commercial lumbar packs are examples of the sins of overbuilding and have a good share of straps, buckles, flaps, and zippers that have been abandoned on the UL packs. The large Mountainsmith lumbar packs are a study that way: as the volume went up, more straps and buckles were added to stabilize the load, increasing the complexity, cost, and weight, until an 1150ci lumbar pack tips the scales at 29oz — just 3oz less than my 4650ci GoLite Trek!

The goal with this exercise was to get some load off the upper back and have a frameless, flexible arrangment. Water and heavier items can go in the lumbar pack with sleeping bag/pad and spare clothing in the upper pack, eliminating the need for frame stays or other means of trying to vector the weight to the hips. I’d like to double the volume of the lumbar pack. My volume calculations for the upper pack are based on just the size of the net section of the pack and the waterproof liner may run up to more like 2500ci. With the goal being to keep the weight down low, that shouldn’t be increase and only low density stuff should be carried there.

As there are plenty of small ultralight packs available for the top side, what the market needs to provide is a lumbar pack built with UL materials and concepts that will hold 500-750ci with a 2 liter Platypus or two water bottle holsters. A coordinated system with the D-rings and snap hooks I was able to improvise would be very good. That upper pack needs to be nothing more than a silnylon bag with pack straps and be aimed at holding about 7 pounds— enough for a synthetic bag, pad, spare clothing and a bit more for bulky but light items.

I've recently started thinking about going exclusively to a lumbar pack. I'm not fond of using shoulder straps on it though. IMHO it defeats the purpose of a lumbar.

Anyone have a favorite lumbar? I'd love to see a couple examples of what you guys use.

Hey Julian!

My friend also has spondilitis (as well as her dad). So far the UL 45 has worked like a charm for both them, as well as massive dosages of pain killers….. Nonetheless, without the pain killers both rave how the UL45 Harness can "mold" to the shape of their backs and how the hipbelts / frame transfer the weight wonderfully.

Hopefully this pic will help convince you!!!

Sorry!! Didn't realize how old this post was!!