Aquamira Amount on PCT

Ben,
yeah that is probably a good idea too. Once the body gets used to the diet and everything it is pretty easy to stay regular. Maybe once in the Sierras I can ditch the paper. We'll see :)
Evan

To get Katadyn MicroPur tablets to work faster put a tablet in the bowl of your spoon and grind it into powder with, say, the end of your knife handle.

This will drastically cut down the time it takes for them to become fully effective.

Personally I use TWO forms of water purification.

1. SteriPen Adventurer > For my bike bottle that I use for electrolyte drink mixes. This is a "right away" sterilizer. 90 seconds is the only wait time. (Get the newest SteriPen that takes 2 AA batteries, and buy lithium batteries for long life. I keep the batteries out of the SteriPen whan it's not in use.)

2. MicroPur tablets > For my hydration bladder – keeps the bladder, hose and (somewhat) the mouthpiece bacteria free.

If liquid Aqua Mira components are necessary B/C of budget then use it. The ONLY filters you should need are #1 coffee filters and a small, flexible funnel. This for water sources with clear water but lots of floating moss, etc. Filters out liver flukes too.

***BTW, as Ben says, BATHROOM HYGENE is vitally important. I always carry liquid hand sanitizer for after potty hand cleaning. Cheap and WELL worth it since it's estimated that hand-to-mouth transfer of fecal bacterial likely accounts for most on-trail intestinal illness.***

"As far as Aqua Mira (liquid) goes, I'd love to see the stats on how many PCT, AT, and CT thru-hikers used it in the last 5-7 years. I'm sure it's in the thousands. I wonder if there was a single case of people who correctly treated their water but got sick anyway (and it wasn't from their own poor bathroom hygiene!). I really think the risks are SERIOUSLY overblown by people, at least along the PCT where I know the water sources."

I hiked the PCT in '07 using Aqua Mira drops the whole way. I'd use the technique again, although I would look into the Steripen as an alternative (convenient but lots of batteries). I was pretty religious about hygene, including treating all water and using lots of Purell before touching food etc, but still got sick twice. Based on circumstantial evidence from other hikers I believe it may have been crypto rather than Gardia. My biggest lesson learned – other than being very careful about hygene – was to get some Flagil or similar prescription antibiotic for your first aid kit so you can treat yourself if symptoms hit several days outside of a town. This made a big difference for me.

I like the coffee filter idea. I saw a thread on the use of a car filter that works and is very cheap however the shipping is a ton of money. I have the coffee filter around the house. How many would you carry at once? Also, how much Purell would you carry for, lets say, a week? Seems like everyone uses it even though its quite heavy. Would it be better to bring some soap sleeves and use them when water is available to cut weight?
Evan

Flagyl is not classified as an antibiotic, because it doesn't go after bacteria.

Flagyl is an anti-parasite drug. Basically, it purges everything from your GI tract, good, bad, or indifferent. It is fairly effective against Giardia. However, you don't get something for nothing. Some people report that the drug treatment is worse than the ailment. I don't know.

Flagyl was once thought to be potentially carcinogenic, but I haven't read anything on it for so long that I don't know. The bottom line is: Crude but effective.
–B.G.–

For coffee filter, get the wire mesh type, not paper. Wire mesh is truly multi-use and doesn’t “hold on” to the water — thus permitting much, much faster flow.

Take a look here and see if you like my idea of a water scoop with integrated mesh coffee filter.

A week? A half-ounce bottle will be plenty!!

Just tried sucking through the Frontier Pro for the first time (I've only used it in gravity mode before). I was amazed at how easy it was. Really felt the same as sucking though a platy hose.

This will definitely be my new system. Chem treatment, 20-30 min wait, and suck through the Frontier pro. Still undecided if I'm going to switch to chlorine or stick with the tablets.

Ben, would still love to hear your answers to the questions in my previous post. Thanks!!

Bob wrote:
"Flagyl is an anti-parasite drug. Basically, it purges everything from your GI tract, good, bad, or indifferent. It is fairly effective against Giardia. However, you don't get something for nothing. Some people report that the drug treatment is worse than the ailment. I don't know."

I got giardia twice on the PCT this past year. Giardia is a horrible, exposive (in the worst sense of the word). I whole heartedly recommend flagyl. I started feeling better by the end of the first day on the drug. I don't see how it's possible to say giardia is better.

I also read a journal from a hiker last year who tried to hike on with giardia symptoms for nearly a month. He finally got tested and got flagyl and was better in a few days.

Also as a clarification (from the Wiki) Metronidazole (generic Flagyl) is a nitroimidazole antibiotic medication used mainly in the treatment of infections caused by susceptible organisms, particularly anaerobic bacteria and protozoa. As Bob said, primary use is for parasites like giardia, but it is an antibiotic.

Do you think that the wire mesh can be found at the hardware store? I'll head out there today to check it out. How small of holes should I be looking for?
That Flagyl stuff- can you get it over the counter, or do you need a prescription? Sounds like it might be good for a last resort if 50 miles from civilization with nasty symptoms.
Evan

Ryan:

Sorry I missed one of your questions. The Frontier Pro can be used as inline filter, gravity filter as well as drinking tube at the end — since it comes with its own removable bite valve. My own set up is:

bladder –> hydration tube –> Frontier Pro

You can also rig a simple attachment (elastic band or velcro or something) on your shoulder strap to keep the Frontier Pro 'on the ready'.

Evan:

The wire mesh coffee filter can be found in Wally World, K-Mart, etc.

Flagyl is a prescription drug, at least in the U.S. In some third-world countries, you can buy this OTC.

I have some doubt that a physician will give you a prescription unless you have symptoms that are confirmed by a lab test. If you had symptoms once before on the PCT, then a physician might possibly give you a prescription before you went out on a second trip.

Most people would elect to treat their raw water appropriately and then never have to worry about this.

The first time I saw the drug used on a woman, she was given two choices. Either she remains in camp for at least four days taking the normal dose, or else she could take all four days worth in a single day. She chose the one day emergency treatment. So, for the next 24 hours, she only moved from the tent to the latrine and back. After 24 hours, she was completely free of the Giardia bugs, but had lost weight from diarrhea. For the next several days, she was so dehydrated and weak that she needed assistance to hike. Her appetite was gone, but she needed to "stay on the trail." So, she drank Gatorade for those days. It gave her enough water and calories that she could hike slowly and stay alive. After those first days, she slowly started eating tea and thin soups, and her appetite still wasn't normal one week later. Your gut normally has some benign flora, and that gets wiped out by the treatment, and it takes a while before that gets restored.
–B.G.–

Eric– Which model takes two AA batteries? I can't seem to find one that does.

There is a new Traveller mini that is 3.6 oz, but still takes the CR23 batteries.

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like I will just have to be extra careful or deal with the consequences.

"I have some doubt that a physician will give you a prescription unless you have symptoms that are confirmed by a lab test. If you had symptoms once before on the PCT, then a physician might possibly give you a prescription before you went out on a second trip."

Actually numerous people on the PCT had gotten prescriptions from their doctors just in case (wish I had). It was usually their primary care doctor who they had been using for several years, not just walking in to an office and asking for drugs. I recommend it if you can get it. If not for you, someone else will likely need it. The drug itself is cheap <$10 even without insurance.

I also recommend carrying a couple tabs of immodium. The second time symptoms hit I had a 12 mi walk to get into town. No way I could have made it without something to plug me up. It still ranks as some of the worst hours of my life.

And yes much better to treat your water. The first time I got g was because I bought into the stories that said it was so unlikely to get it from water rather than other hikers. The second time was because I was using a uv Muv that failed and I had to drink something.

I now carry a drip filter and a small dropper bottle of bleach as a backup. The weight of the drip filter (about 4 oz) is much less than the weight of carrying an extra liter (or even .5L) of water while waiting for the AM/bleach to work.

Jennifer,

Their Classic and the just introduced Traveler both use FOUR AA batteries.(!) Maybe that's too heavy for you – it is for my taste. I thought they had one with just two AA batteries.

Get one of the ones W/ the CR 123 batteries and buy the lithium version. I guess most drugstores and supermarkets have CR 123 batterie of some sort.

Thanks Eric. I do have the Adventurer that takes the 2 CR-123 batteries, but I would have jumped on a 2-AA model!

Yes, if you suddenly confront some strange physician and demand a prescription for Flagyl, it is likely that he will refuse. On the other hand, if you ask your regular physician, and if you support your request with some medical literature references or statistics and explain the situation, you will stand a better chance. Also, it is possible that the physician will want to prescribe some other drug that is not as powerful.

My personal physician knows that I am not a "druggie" and he knows that I am not a complete fool about this stuff. If he doesn't know which way to decide, he refers me to the Travel Clinic of the same health center, because they have more experience on this subject.

Yes, my standard protocol when in a third-world country is much deeper than when I am out along the PCT. If I feel the first urge of a serious GI problem, I take Pepto-Bismol tablets, maybe one or two. If the urge becomes more demanding, then I take Immodium. If that doesn't clear it, then I break out the Bactrim or Cipro. Note that each drug has its own minor side effects.

It's more likely along the PCT that a mild case of something is triggered by poor cleanliness with your eating gear. It wouldn't shock me a bit to hear of somebody getting "full blown" Giardia [pun intended].

What would be really neat to know… is there something slightly different in your GI tract, and that explains why you got Giardia when the next hiker didn't. I can understand if you had failures in your water treatment system. But, wouldn't it be interesting if it was determined that you had something that could have been detected by a lab test? Like, you had been eating Food Item X, and that is better for Giardia bugs to survive. That's just a wild theory. The Giardia cyst is a tough little thing.
–B.G.–

My doctor has been awesome at letting me know what I need for my first aid kit, and making sure I have the anti-biotics and anti-parasites I might need.

These drugs are harsh on the body, they don't suffer from abuse like pain killers, which she won't give me pre-emptively.

Ben,

Thanks! I think I might experiment with a quick disconnect between the bladder and Frontier Pro. This would hopefully allow for easy bladder refilling and leaving the Frontier Pro semi-permanently attached to the shoulder strap.

I am going to suggest with aquamira you don't need a filter.

Now we get to how to scoop out water in shallow places. Wire mesh is single use item, and coffee filters cost you weight, you need more than one, and are a disposable item.

What I do is use my driking cup, cooking pot, or whatever I bring. My filter is my bandana. Of course you need to worry if left over crud is hidding in your scooper. If a pot cleaning/boiling with water will fix that. Or you can slosh around the newly treated water and then pour it back into the water bottle.

I have never done a PCT thru hike, but have done some 6 month trips and have hiked most sections of the PCT. I think you are over-thinking this (I am not ignoring the potential bad things that are happening). If I were going to leave for a PCT thru hike next month, I would simply rely on aquamira in tablets or chemical form. I would concentrate my efforts on other planning activities for the trip.

Yes, most physicians are reluctant to prescribe painkillers unless they know you very well, and they know what you are doing. There are far too many people who troll various physicians until they get what they want as a recreational pharmaceutical.

Or, even if you intended to reserve it for a serious pain problem out on the trail, some people will still manage to mis-use it or sell it.

Every time that I was departing for a third-world country, I got mine. The physician would play "Twenty Questions" to see if I knew what I was asking for, and I always seemed to pass.

–B.G.–

"If I were going to leave for a PCT thru hike next month, I would simply rely on aquamira in tablets or chemical form. I would concentrate my efforts on other planning activities for the trip."

A big +1 to that. I'd get a 2L Platy bladdes and three 1L Aquafina bottles, some Aquamira tablets and liquid, and call that part of my planning done.

can bacteria go from your bowel, to your hand, to your mouth?

it seems like if you're already infected, it owuldn't matter

I don't know the answer to this question, but I still don't want to eat excrement (BPL blocks all other terms it appears) :P

> can bacteria go from your bowel, to your hand, to your mouth?
Absolutely yes.

> it seems like if you're already infected, it owuldn't matter
Misunderstanding. The presence of bacteria such as E coli in your LOWER intestines is NOT the same as having the bacteria in your stomach or upper intestines. There is no backflow inside your intestines and stomach for VERY good reason!

Washing your hands with soap and water is so obvious, yet so ignored away from home. Mummy isn't there to supervise …

Cheers