Winter Clothing Question

Check out Verber's website…loads of info all over it.

http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/clothing.html

I don't know the area, but I'll just give a few quick replies to get the ball rolling…

Q1. I use 3 layers while active and then a fourth (parka) when I get to camp that goes over all my gear.

Q2. Nailing your gear right off the bat will be tough. I'm still refining what I bring…maybe check some gearlists of people in your area to get an idea of what they use.

Q3. I prefer a hood only on my outer most layer, but I'm sure others have a different preference.

Q4. When you say winter coat, do you mean a parka? Nothing wrong with zip off sleeves, but chances are you won't hike in your parka as you will get too hot.

I obviously live in a different area, but you can check out a bunch of my gearlists for various trips at the link below.

http://www.suluk46.com/adventure.html

1. For hiking in spring/fall I usually wear a Lightweight Smartwool L/S shirt, REI Sierra Convertible Pants and add 100wt fleece beanie and gloves as needed. For dead of winter, I use the same setup except I go to a midweight wool baselayer, 200wt gloves, and also bring a windshirt to use as needed.

In camp in the spring/fall I change into a dry lightweight poly top (lightest I could find 2.2oz) , lightweight wool bottoms (lightest I could find 3.6oz) I also change to dry 100wt fleece gloves (.85) and beanie (.95), dry socks (1.9oz), and wear my Mont-Bell UL Down Jacket (6.9oz). I occasionally bring and wear the Mont-Bell UL Down Pants (6.9oz) as well. I usually add my raingear around camp as well as a outer layer and windbreaker. I sleep with a BPL Pro 90 Balaclava in my quilt, but rarely use it around camp.

Note: I know many BPL people think this is heresy, but I just can’t get things to dry here and get chilled if I don’t change into dry clothes. That is why I take the “sleeping” top and bottom. It also helps keep my bags and quilt clean.

In camp in the winter I use basically the same setup only I add fleece mitts (2.4oz) and MLD eVent rain mitts (1.1oz), change my down jacket to a hooded Nunatak Skaha Plus, and always take my down pants.

2. I don’t like gear that is too fancy. If a piece of gear tries to do too many things, often it ends up not really doing anything well. I prefer a layering approach to clothing and I want everything as breathable as possible. I like wool for winter baselayers, down for insulation, and separate shells (ie I don’t want an insulated shell).

3. What are you using the Balaclava for? Is this for hiking or sleeping? If it is for sleeping, is it in a hoodless quilt or bag, or is in addition to a bags hood?

4. I don’t think this is necessary. All you should be doing in a winter coat is doing camp chores and perhaps sleeping. You shouldn’t hike in it you would overheat even in an insulated vest. Believe it or not you need very little clothes while on the move. I have hiked many time in the teens and been very comfortable in just a baselayer top. You want to avoid sweating if you can so everything you wear while hiking should be as breathable as possible. For example your fleece beanie and gloves should NOT be windproof. Use them to help regulate temperature taking them off and putting them on as needed. If you get cold just hike a little faster. You should start off chilly in the mornings. If you are comfortable when you start hiking, you will overheat almost immediately, or worse you will get your insulation layer wet with sweat without realizing it. You warm up quick once you start walking.

> How many layers do I really need early spring/late fall vs dead of winter?

Depends on what the layers are, how big you expect the temperatures to swing over the course of the trip, and what the lowest expected temp is. Unless you are experiencing extremely cold winters, a heavy base or light fleece + wind shell will provide enough warmth while you are moving. Once you stop, you would want something with more insulation. Ideally either a high loft synthetic or down vest/jacket/parka.

> How fancy?

Depends on how you wear things. I typically plan to have a protective shell that provides protection from the elements so I don't typically worry about wind or water resistance in the inner layers. When I was climbing I did want a weather resistant shell on my high loft parka, because it would get put over the top of whatever I was wearing while resting and then come back off.

> need hood?

You most likely don't "need" a hood, but I would recommend a hood, especially in the dead of winter. You can lose a lot of heat around the neck and a good hood helps a lot.

> zip off sleeves?

No experience… but I am a big fan of vests.

–Mark

1. My approach to spring/fall is to add some insulation and layers to my typical summer clothing. Winter (0-30 F) is a different set of clothing, and I add a layer or two of winter clothes to my summer clothes for spring/fall

When hiking around 0-30 F, this is what I wear:
polyester t-shirt (short sleeve from discount store)
thin merino wool shirt ($3 from thrift store)
lambswool sweater ($3 from thrift store)
2nd lambswool sweater if below 10 F ($3 from thrift store)
fleece jacket if necessary (generic brand purchased at discount store for around $20)
polyester athletic windbreaker used as windshirt ($10 from discount store: not as breathable as more expensive options)
synthetic parka for around camp
heavy wool pants with suspenders (Big Bill brand)
polypropylene liners, or insulated fleece gloves if necessary
fleece or insulated acrylic hat
maybe a silk-weight polypro balaclava
1-2 pairs of heavy wool socks
rain gear if any possibility of rain

3. Hoods are a personal preference.

4. Zip off sleeves are nice if you already have them, but I'd make that one of the last factors to consider.

For summer time I usually just have:
-bandana and wool felt fedora
-rain jacket
-fleece or lightweight synthetic insulated vest
-mid-weight synthetic baselayer top if at higher elevations
-lightweight synthetic T-shirt
-synthetic boxer briefs
-synthetic shorts
-sock liners
-merino socks

In fall and sping I just add:
-200 wt. fleece toboggan
-200 wt. fleece jacket or synthetic insulater jacket
-lightweight synthetic baselayer bottoms
-bottoms to my convertible pants
-rain pants
-thick wool sleep socks

My last winter trip the weather was sunny, calm and in the mid to low 30's during the day with a foot of snow on the ground. While hiking I was wearing:

Bandana on my head
sunglasses
Marmot mid-weight base layer top(sleeves rolled up)
Montbell Thermawrap vest(unzipped)
BD Powerstretch gloves
Patagonia Cap boxer briefs
TNF Paramount convertible pants(the bottoms were off most of the time)
OR Rocky Mountain Low Gaiters
Sock liners
Smartwool Mini Crew socks
Montrail Hardrock Mids

I burn up while I am hiking so I don't wear much but as soon as I stop I freeze. The lows must have been in the mid to upper teens. For camp wear I brought along:

200 wt. fleece toboggan
200 wt. fleece balaclava
NB Fugu Down jacket
ECW polypro baselayer bottoms
Thick wool sleep socks

Hope that helps!

Joseph

First to answer a few,
Steve, It was an REI Nevis jacket lists itself as a "PrimaLoft® Eco synthetic Wind jacket" and "layers easily underneath a shell jacket in wet weather" I'm assuming something like my rain jacket is what it'd layer under in that case. Don't know how you'd describe that other than maybe a wind shell.

Bradford, the Balaclava is because I HATE having a cold nose and ears, and I really don't want to carry more than one or two pieces for my head gear so everything from hiking in on cold days to just sleeping in at camp since we are using a camp quilt instead of bags. And thanks for the tip on the gloves and hat. I had planned on getting glove liners and then thicker gloves for over top, now I know I'll want to stick the liners on and leave the thicker, non breathing ones in with my rain gear.

Okay now for my question, Ya'll say "around 200wt" How do I know what the weight is? Also, I'm paranoid about getting into a situation I'm not used to or is colder than I was expecting and getting into serious trouble health and safety wise. How much of a risk is it or am I really just looking at being uncomfortable for a bit?

The risk is very real. Hypothermia is the biggest killer of people who spend extended time outdoors. Clothing is the most important thing in the cold. Confidence in your clothing only comes from experience with it. Try it out in your backyard and on dayhikes where you load up your pack with different items to try out or use as backups if something doesn't work. If after all of this testing you're not sure if you'll need a specific clothing item on a trip, take it just in case.

Jo, I'll confess that I haven't read all of the specific clothing recommendations on this thread but I'll second Andy's idea that no amount of reading posts comes close to actually spending a night in the woods. I had a complete lack of knowledge about winter camping and ventured in this year with about three trips in the cold. I now have strong confidence in my gear and what I will and won't need in 15 degrees vs 40 degrees, and the difference in walking in the sun with a warm body and the still quiet cold of 3am with the wind blowing – and they're all very different. My suggestion would be to do a little 16 hour car camping test. Take along a thermometer. Go out to a State Park or similar late afternoon, hike for several hours with full pack, spend the night in your tent. The back yard would also work. In only 16 hours you'll learn a tremendous amount about what you think you do and don't need and it will greatly alleviate your concern about what will or won't work on your "real" hike. Nothing beats experience.

Ok so I'll just hold off on any true backpacking trips until the night temp doesn't go lower than 30's since that's the lowest I feel experienced enough to handle and I'll definitely be taking a lot of weekend trips to start. Fortunately, the state parks and a lot of really great hiking campgrounds around here have walk in campsites where you park your car at the entrance and walk to your spot. That way I can test with exactly what I'd have on trail without ever being more than a few hours from the car.

People tend to go by the Madden Mills Polarfleece weights which were 100, 200, and 300. 200wt fleece is your "standard" fleece weight.

Ok thanks!

Jo, you sound like you used to live in Phoenix!

Cold isn't something to be trifled with, but you also live in Georgia! Given your level of paranoia, it seems to me highly unlikely that you'll make a big mistake in a context in which it might be serious.

The biggest challenge to staying warm in winter is not sweating. As folks have noted already, during mild below freezing temps and when on the move, you may need very little clothing. When wearing a pack, your back will always get soaked, so get stuff that dries fast.

Wind is obviously more of a concern in winter. Out west, where when it's cold it's cold and humidity is low, I just bring a windshirt. In NoGeo during the winter, you'd want a rain shell year round. I'd bring both.

The top thing in my pack during all winter trips is a puffy coat. I prefer synthetic, others prefer down. Fleece is cheap and durable, and works just fine. When you stop for a break/snack/etc, immediately put the puffy on. Keep the heat from moving inside. Staying warm is infinitely easier than getting cold and warming up again.

So, let's presume you've got a reasonable (20 degree or so) sleeping bag and a decent pad(s). Seems like you'll need:

Baselayer longsleeve shirt
Synthetic trekking pants
Windshirt type-thing
Rain gear
Puffy coat
Light wool or fleece hat
Two pairs mid-heavy weight liner gloves
Shoes, socks, gaiters, etc

That's it! You're going backpacking, not on a lunar expedition! There are of course infinite variations on this, and real cold and/or remote places and/or especially bad weather can demand more, but the only way you'll figure that out is to get out there. There is a big difference between just being cold, and being dangerously cold. Be just afraid enough of the later but not much with respect to the former.

Having spent all of my backpacking experience in the Southern Appalachians in all seasons, I feel somewhat qualified to comment.

I like a 4 layer system comprised of a base layer, wind shirt, insulation layer, and hard shell. These layers can mix-and-match to cover a very wide variety of conditions, from strenuous uphill in warmer temps, to hanging around camp on the coldest night.

The actual layers of course depend on the time of year and expected temperatures. For late fall/early spring, with temps down to 20-F at night and highs around 50, I use an Icebreaker 150-weight long sleeved base layer, an ultralight 3-ounce wind shirt, a down sweater with a hood, and a light rain shell. In colder weather (December and January) I would use the same base layer, a Marmot DriClime windshirt, big puffy down jacket, and the same rain shell.

In the winter I always carry extra clothing for camp and sleeping. These tend to be thicker base layers like my Powerstretch tights and a microfleece zip tee. Changing into dry base layers is great, then add the insulation layer and the rain shell if it's really cold.

I carry two hats and two pairs of gloves; light ones to hike, and warm ones for camp/sleeping. In the dead of winter I add waterproof/breathable overmitts.

Winter hiking around here is a lot of fun. Be prepared and enjoy it.

Jo,

Buy the following layers

1. Inner Layer > polyester long johns in medium weight (maybe light weight for bottoms)Poly pro sock liners, Vapor Barier Liner (VBL) and medium socks

2. Middle (Insulating) Layer > the most warmth for weight WHILE exerxcising is a synthetic jacket. A pile or lighter fleece vest is nice too for more options

3. Outer (Shell) Layer > a parka preferrably a Gore-Tex PacLite or Pro Shell version or, the best, eVent

Don't forget GTX gloves that have REMOVABLE fleece/pile liners & carry spare liners. Also knee-high GTX laminated gaiters add 10 F. to boots and keep out snow. Snow-wet socks are misrable and dangerous, even with a VBL.