Newbie list/ Summer /weekend MI

Just a general recommendation: July in Michigan is still skeeter/fly season, so bring 100% DEET and consider a headnet and keep the long sleves- really they are only a problem inland, so once you get to the edge of the island, they should be fine.

forgot the headnet. Thanks. 100 percent Deet is on the list.

weigh everything- that first aid kit weights 6-8 oz I bet. dont take the case, use a ziplock instead, and take only a band aid or two, some duct tape, superglue (wound closure)take the weight down to an ounce or two. Don't take the crocs- go barefoot if playing in water, (it's all sand) save about a #. Don't take the gps-unless you are going off-trail, you will never need it. Everything is so well marked you'd have to work hard to get lost. take a compass instead. several more ounces saved. No Gregory packs- you are shopping a mainstream gear store and they typically don't share how to reduce packweight cuz then they have to deal with returns when you jam a 9# mountaineering tent into a GOlite pack. Look at Golite, Gossamer Gear, etc for packs and don't consider anything over 2#. Those mainstream packs feel all cool in the store but are designed to carry 50#- even if you carry gear for your son, you should not exceed 40#. Just some starting thoughts. I have taken 8 yo. on hikes, and my 3yo, and we never exceed 40#. Weigh what you have, be shocked, then ask"is there a lighter way to do this". You will drop 10# just doing that.

The lightest headnet you can get is probably this one when it’s actually in stock. I bought this one, which weighs 3 times the Simblisity at .92oz.

Why would you ever need either of these when you expect weather in the 80's? You have long pants and a long sleeve shirt. I wouldn't bring this "underwear" unless I expected some potential 50's weather (non Minnesotans maybe low 60's).

I think I would get my son a $1 emergency poncho (with the idea that it would be highly unlikely it would rain) and for yourself, get a $15-20 set of Frogg Toggs or Driducks (leave the pants home). In the middle of the summer heat, I personally just plan on getting wet and air drying. The rain won't be too cold, right?

Between now and July when you leave, there will be plenty of very good but inexpensive packs for sale on the "Gear Swap" forum. Someone will have a great youth or woman's pack for your boy. How old, and how tall is he?

Maybe better yet, see if anyone you know has some packs or a lighter tent you can borrow for this July trip. Then you can focus more money on 1-2 great (read durable,lightweight) gear replacements. Then maybe preparing for the next trip you could replace another item, until you've lightened up to your satisfaction.

For as few miles as you're going on this trip, I wouldn't worry much about frame/no frame and all the other things that have been discussed as you were asking questions about packs in an earlier thread. Focus on borrowing on this first trip. If you can't find a lender you know, ask me (us). I'll help you if asked, after you've exhausted your other resources (ie. your family and friends).

I've saved a lot of money, and gotten better gear by buying used gear on this site's "Gear Swap" forum.

"Why would you ever need either of these when you expect weather in the 80's? You have long pants and a long sleeve shirt. I wouldn't bring this "underwear" unless I expected some potential 50's weather (non Minnesotans maybe low 60's)."

I'll assume you have never camped in mi, wi or mn. But standard nighttime low temps for this area is mid 50s which in reality could mean even 40s on a bad night. I would never be caught without a longsleeve upper and lower base layer. In addition, you can wear them in the daytime to help keep bugs/sunburn at bay. Takes up very little room/weight.

I do think that 4 shirts total (2 short sleeve base layer, 1 long sleeve and 1 long sleeve base layer) is total overkill for 2 days.

I also would ditch:
The large pack towel (share)
Repair tape (what's the duct tape for then?)
1 of the three lights total (headlamp, flashlight, lantern)
Hand sanitizer or soap
Reduce the med kit by half or more. Only take out what you will need and put it in an opsack so it is really waterproof instead of original case.
3 pairs of bottoms? Get rid of the shorts or swimsuit or combine all three with 1 pair of zipper pants. There is no way that you will wear all of these.

Hope you have an amazing time! Getting kids into camping is one of the best gifts you could ever give.

Jay

Wow, first of all thanks for the advice and replies so quickly. I spent this afternoon weighting things. I have this so far.

clothes 5 lbs 9oz

gear with clothes 21.14 lbs

I put water in my water bladder and platypus bottle and jumped to 28.14 lbs

As far as the insulated base layer top and bottom it will depend on the weather. Last year MI was cool all summer we had temps in the 40's at night and car camping the first week of August we brought a heater in the tent. If I can cut them out I will but I will have to see the lows for that week first.

CAMPSUDS(2.5oz): I was thinking for cleaning up after the day. I guess I don't really need it do I.

MEDKIT (12 oz): It can be brought down in size.Is it good to have the medkit in a ziplock or in your food sack due to smells?

RAIN PONCHO: For my son that sounds great for a buck. Where do you get those? Can I get one for a few bucks more that will hold up better then the super thin plastic ones?

LIGHTS: Fenix (1.5oz) Led lantern(7.3oz) Pelican headlamp(3.0oz) 1.1 lbs total . I could get away with just the fenix I guess but my son will carry the lantern he wanted for the trip my fenix was a backup light and the headlamp was for cooking etc. Do most of you use one light or have a backup? What do you use?

My sons gear that he will carry.

sleeping bag 2.2 lbs
pad 9.3oz
led lantern 7.3 oz
whistle with flashlight fenix 3.2oz
playpus drinking bottle full 1.1#
water bladder full 4.8# full

clothes 4.2#

total weight 14.42#

He weights 50lbs so they suggested not to go over 15# for his size. I am debating about the bladder vs .5 liter bottle.With having a water source nearby I am wondering if the .5 liter is enough especially if its hot you just don't know in MI.

You just don't know what MI will do. I will have to play this one by ear. We hope its warm Mi was really cool this past summer and 50 with a cold rain happend in mid summer.

My wife on our first night out snagged her wedding ring on the clear air core mattress and we didn't have anything to repair it.The rip tape was recommended by the store instead of duct tape for the long haul.They stated Duct tape won't hold up.

I am confused on the packs. My past posts most people steered me to a traditional pack to get started with carrying family weight on top of my own. I didn't know of any UL packs that can hold the 40-60# comfortably.

"It can be brought down in size.Is it good to have the medkit in a ziplock or in your food sack due to smells?"

Not due to smells, but I often canoe camp and if the med kit gets wet at all, much inside is going to be non-functional. Mainly i like to use the opsac because I know it is waterproof where as most of the ones that the kits ship with are not fully waterproof.

As far as the lights, I would let your son take along whatever he likes because lights are fun and reassuring, but for you, just bring a headlamp and if it dies, bandana your sons fenix to the side of your head, you have plenty of backup (you did have 2 fenix lights on the list)

Duct tape will hold fine for a week or two for a quick repair of a mattress, then do the permanent patch when you get home. Repair tape will be much cleaner and survive the long haul, but duct tape will do the job.

I take two lights with me, my spot headlamp and my uco mini candle lantern. 3.2 oz w/candle and definitely would get scolded by the UL guru's. I like the ambiance of the natural light hanging around my shelter area. Takes tea lights which costs a couple of ounces for a handful. Ok so I'm pushing it. Really though one light is plenty. I can understand stand your son wanting to take a cool little lantern. You could cut down a little on teh weight of that with a Black Diamond Orbit. Pretty bright little light and only 4oz with batteries.

Would a pack like this $97.50 GoLite Lite-Speed (35% off) work for you?

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/Product.aspx?baseno=1608A&plp=GoLite_Lite-Speed_Ultralight_Backpack_-_Internal_Frame_For_Men&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=PaidShopping&utm_term=GoLite_Lite-Speed_Ultralight_Backpack_-_Internal_Frame_For_Men&utm_campaign=PCGOOGLEBASE2KX&codesProcessed=true

I don't see how I would get all my gear in that pack along with my tent. I will have to deal with that tent for now and hope to lighten it up in a year. I have to focus on getting the pack and a sleeping bag for now.

I just found the traveler by six moon designs with my base weight under 30 minus food I wonder how this pack would hold up?

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=10&cat=Packs

I have the discontinued Six Moon Designs Comet, a smaller version of the Starlite. I've had mine 5 years and it's holding up fine. I had to send it back after the first summer because some of the stitching started to unravel, but SMD repaired it at no charge. No problems since!

I would, however, definitely get the "optional" (mandatory, IMHO) aluminum stays, for more effective weight transfer to the hip belt. The load lifters work much better with the stays in, too.

I have carried 36-37 lbs. in it–my shoulders, back and hips were fine, although my knees and feet were screaming!

I've carried 25lbs comfortably with mine. If it was a tightly packed load it would probably be fine. 30# seems to be where the difference begins to be noticeable of framed v frameless.

IMO get the optional stays and use them at this weight- after you eat your food it can get floppy due to small compression straps.

Thats what happened to me, anyway.

I think that this pack was too big of volume for what I needed.

I loved it, the functionality, pad pocket, top pocket- everything…

I was carrying about 25# with full food load, though. So at 30+ you should be ok for volume. For comfort I think at that weight any pack would do better w/ a frame.

Tent is really heavy; bugs can be horrid then, so I would stick w/a tent, but I'd look for something lighter. A good budget tent might be the Mountain Hardwear Lightpath ($180/~4 pounds) or the Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight ($200/~3.5 pounds).

First aid kit is… really, really heavy. Take a look at some first aid kit threads using the search function. A few ounces will take care of nearly anything… honest.

GPS completely unnecessary for the trip. Woo-hoo! Lose another 1/3 pound!

One light, one whistle, less soap. You don't need a backup light. If you have one and your son has one, then there's automatically a backup…

I don't like 100% Deet. It has melted bike computers and cameras; I don't want it on my skin! I've also found that the 100% stuff actually isn't as effective as Ben's 30%. You probably don't need a full 4-oz bottle.

In your search, FWIW, it's a Marmot Precip… (not TNF)

You only need one baselayer shirt. However, nights can get down into the 40s even sometimes, and a single long underwear top might not be enough warmth. You might look into a light insulated vest (0.5 pound or less). Also ditch either the shorts or the swimsuit; you don't need both, and either will dry quickly if you wear them into the lake.

Backpack: If you're actually going to carry 45+ pounds, then the Aether might still be a good way to go. But with some tweaking, your baseweight (including clothes) should be able to get into the 15# range. A week's worth of food for you and your son would come in just over 20 pounds. Add water; if you tank up, ~5 pounds. So, yeah, at the start you're looking around 45 pounds. Oh, but that didn't include the 5# Aether. The pack will get lighter as you eat, but it might be a good one to start. You might also look at the GoLite Quest, a 3# 70L framed pack, or the Exos 58, a 2# ~60L framed pack. Perhaps the Z65. In the cottage-industry realm, check out the ULA Catalyst, or maybe even their Circuit!

Cheers-

What is FWIW? ( not tnf) I am lost?

I like the ideas for the first aid kit I will have to do some looking around. The Exos might be a better bet and cheaper why to lighten up a bit. I am nervous in getting a cottage-industry realm pack.I just watch the " your a wimp" you tube video from steve at Gossamer gear. I am inspired to lighten up before buying this new gear. the tent will have to wait this year as the sleeping bag is needed over the 5lb coleman and pack. Going to take some of these items out and re weight my load see where I will be at. Everybody states to weight the gear first and pick the pack for the trip so that is what I am trying to do.

still can't find a UL pack for kids . Anybody have kids in a gossemer gear, ULA, six moon designs pack etc?

Just looked at the six moon designs swift, travler, gossemer gear gorrilla and compared these to the catalyst. Wow they all look nice and really lightweight compared to the Osprey aether. I guess I have to make a choice to go with the more duriable pack of the aether or exos and lighten the load or go with a UL pack and really lighten the load!!! Most of the UL packs I would be pushing it on the weight limits.

because I hadn't seen it mentioned yet. You have three fire sources. And three firestarters. You don't need matches, and you don't need vaseline soaked cotton balls and dryer lint. Either that or ditch the hand sanitizer (which will work as a firestarter) and bring the cotton balls, and wash your hands with bronners (you can put this in a smaller container).