3mm Aerogel “Supersuit” going to Everest

Comment from: a forum on another site by…

“Posted by Mike A – 01/27/2010 01:27 PM

Hi,
I am Director of Research for Hanesbrands.

The aerogel is completely hydrophobic so it won’t get wet and will keep it’s thermal properties under water.
We are using c-change membranes from Schoeller.
The clo value of aerogel actually improves under compression. All other insulation depend on captured air, aerogel isn’t dependent on air and under compression any trapped air is pushed out improving the clo value.
We don’t have a price point yet but expect it to be at a price lower than down for equal or better performance.

Great to get the questions, let me know if there is anything else you would like to know.

We don’t have a price point yet but expect it to be at a price lower than down for equal or better performance.

You have my interest.

I was just thinking as I logged on to BPL that we're due for some new fabrics. Aerogel isn't a fabric but if it can be made into durable clothing insulation it should revolutionize the market.

I guess its main feature is that it does not TRANSMIT heat. It should make clothing and sleeping bags much thinner – and much more compact for packing.

Can you imagine an Aerogel/down bag? Down for its draping ability next to the body and Aerogel for most of the warmth. OO! OO!

Now to put a thin layer of Aerogel in a Neo-Air mattress…. :)

Aerogel would be great in the places that give off a lot of moisture. The head and foot box are the first two places I'd want aerogel.

.

Yes, 2 years of R & D, has been presumably spent in order to get a friable, somewhat brittle and unruly material into a pliable and durable form. Still, I’m curious about the weight for the framework in order to accomplish this feat. The material itself weights next to nothing, however, thus far most of the products have been anticlimactic in this department. As a case in point, POE’s current generation Aerogel-featured pad weighs more than twice what a similar sized Ridgerest would weigh and it only provides an increase in R-value from R-2.6 to “3.4-7.0”. When it comes to closed cell-type insulation, I don’t believe there to be significant advantage in increased R-values, as compared to the achievement of a thermal break against conductive heat loss. For the same 14 oz., I would much prefer to have a full-length closed cell pad. As mentioned above, incorporating it into an air mattress, such as the NeoAir would be rather interesting, as would somehow cramming the insulation into an 1/8″ thick pad that weighs 2 oz., such as in Gossamer Gear’s lightest offering.

The backpacking + mountaineering gear weight-reduction achievement of the aerogels-laced products is yet to be significant enough to earn it’s place in my pack. The potential, however, does seem to be there and this achievement by Champion/Duofold’s research team may be a step in a more favorable direction.

I must say that my experience with Hanes seamless base layer and workout gear from Target has been very positive. For a big underwear conglomerate they seem to have some pretty well engineered products.

One big potential benefit of this Aerogel suit is retention of insulation under compression. Climbing harnesses and contact with snow (sitting, laying,etc) won't squeeze the warmth out like with down.

They'll still have to deal with wind causing such a thin garment to flap and pump cold air through- good closures at neck and sleeves plus use of stretch materials to keep it close will be needed.

"and much more compact for packing"

This has not been my experience with the POE aerogel pad. It's heavier than other pads per R value, and precisely because the aerogel doesnt' compress, packs up big. I used it a couple of times, and it was quite warm, I'll give it that. I could feel the warmth below me. But the weight and packing size steered me to other options, and I haven't used the aerogel pad in a couple of years now.

The material itself weights next to nothing, however, thus far most of the products have been anticlimactic in this department. As a case in point, POE's current generation Aerogel-featured pad weighs more than twice what a similar sized Ridgerest would weigh and it only provides an increase in R-value from R-2.6 to "3.4-7.0".

You missed this pad. R-values up to 14. If that's for real, that's incredible. Sure, the high value is over an area with aerogel and an inflatable pad, but I don't care. All I care about is that warmth in a pad that's less than 20 ounces.

http://pacoutdoor.com/sleeping-pads/view/hyper-elite

"R-values up to 14"

I don't understand this. Is it an R5 pad if not inflated at all, and an R14 pad if inflated fully? How does one pad encompass such a wide R-value range? (I tried emailing the company through their website, but got a delivery failure message, unrouteable address).

For different areas of the pad. The inflatable section is only under the torso.

"For different areas of the pad. The inflatable section is only under the torso."

If their numbers are correct, you're right, that is pretty amazing.

Still no word on weight?

Zero Loft Aerogel yet? I believe this is company supplying the aerogel. Just contacted to see if it was possible to get samples or yardage.

I've been looking for a good winter pad. If the R values stated are even close to accurate, we might have a winner. Right now i'm using an Exped 9 and it's an amazing pad. I sleep like a baby. The weight is the issue.

I guess there is only one way to find out… buy and try.

EDIT – http://www.backpacker.com/gear-review-pacific-hyper-elite-sleeping-pad/gear/13414

Just a thought – how could this stuff be breathable / permable? As I understand it, in this form it's like neoprene.

Everything that I've read says that it is breathable, how breathable I have not been able to find.

You can purchase Aerogel XT blankets from this website, $30 for a 12 x 12 square :P I've contacted them to see what the weight per sq/yd is, and how much a sq yard would cost.

Actually the purchase is from BuyAerogel.com

I would think that the Pyrogel XT Blanket that they are selling would have a somewhat limited use due to possible safety concerns…I see the vendor posts the following: "Note: Product is dusty; gloves, eye protection, and dust mask recommended for handling." on the BuyAerogel.com site.

Need to find it in a different format.

This may be closer to what they're using:

http://www.aerogel.com/products/pdf/Spaceloft_DS.pdf

They do state that the material repels liquid water but allows (water) vapor to pass through – so, if it's sandwiched between two breathable layers that may be how it's both breathable and warm. I was thinking about the POE pads and other products I've heard of where the stuff is imbedded in rubbery materials – perhaps they're using the crystalline forms in those products?

They also say that it has no "respirable fibre content" – clearly that's only in already cut (and sealed?) form because they also say that when you're cutting it you have to use gloves, eye protection etc.

Thing is, as an insurance lawyer, when I see "nano", "respiration", "fibres" and warnings about handling the material all in the same pamphlet I start to think long tail asbestos claims … I'm doing a green retrofit on my house and would love to stick some of this under the floorboards and underneath the weatherboards on the north side of the house, but think I might give it a miss for the moment – the recycled polyester batts and perforated foil air blanket we're using definitely don't have any latent health issues.

Just wanted to post a quick comment on here letting you know I have been working on a Aerogel insulated jacket. The project is currently on kickstarter. http://kck.st/RnbdCC

Check it out and tell me what you think.

"We don’t have a price point yet but expect it to be at a price lower than down for equal or better performance."

I find this extremely unlikely.

Ryan

Hi Greg,

Nice looking Jacket. How much does it weigh?

Also, could you put argon rather than air in these ones to greatly increase the insulation value?