Another PCT gear list.

Looks pretty good to me. I dunno if you didnt add these on purpose but what about…
1. Stakes for the tarp
2. Bottle for the alcohol
3. Lighter/matches/fire starter
4. Headnet
6. Extra socks
7. Toothbrush/paste, etc.
I dont know if this was meant to be a complete list, so if not ignore this :)

I've also been on the fence about getting an ice axe for this summer. Do you have any experience using them? What's the snow situation look like out there? The passes and snow travel thing sound like the scariest part of PCT travel to me, mostly because all the info I find seems to be conflicting. Huh…

Well this year has had more snow than last year. I hiked the JMT in July last year and there was a fair amount of snow left on the passes. Considering that I will get to the Sierra much sooner than July I am just figuring there will be a few miles of snow on each side of each pass. Ive used one once before, and there doesnt seem to be a whole lot to it. When you slip it stops you pretty quickly. At the Kickoff there will be a little presentation and workshop on basic mountaineering geared toward trail finding in the snow and ice axe basics. We probably dont need it, its just nice to have I guess.

Very good point. I guess I might as well get one while I still have some money saved up pre-hike. Even if it doesn't get much use I can always have it as part of my gear-closet for future winter sports. It's not like it'll go bad if I don't use it, right? heh.

…" Ive used one once before, and there doesnt seem to be a whole lot to it. When you slip it stops you pretty quickly."…

I have to disagree. An ice axe is a lifesaving tool with training; without training it can both create a false sense of security and possibly injure you. (sort of like a gun).

I've fallen on steep sierra cement and been unable to arrest a slide with my ice axe. Luckily I was belayed. That experience was enough to convince me that practice and a very sharp axe are critical.

I'm also a new convert to using crampons for snow. Many times on early-season Sierra trips we modified our schedule to hit one pass each day at exactlty the right time that snow was soft enough to kick steps but not so soft that we postholed. With crampons and an ice axe you'll be more able to hit two passes in a day, or at least safely travel steep snow in the early morning.

Total weight for ice axe and crampons combined can be quite light if you go with aluminum models. C.A.M.P. USA XLC 490 crampons and Corsa ice axe add up to only 24.5 ounces. The Kahtoola KTS aluminum crampon is slightly heavier but might be better for flexible hiking shoes.

With Steve's last Suluk46 axe, it'll still add up to about 24.5 ounces too. Not that I'm advising this route.

People have done the PCT without ice-axes, and with ice-axes but without prior training; it's insurance, there's now way about it.

But I couldn't advise heading out without one, or without training. Correct, there isn't much to it. But it's not a matter of intellectual skill; on steep slopes you have to react instantaneously, and be able to do it from head first, feet first, on back, on stomach, etc. This requires some training to do it quickly and without goring yourself.

Training is doubly necessary if you choose to use crampons, as self arrest requires a different technique and is actually less effective with them on.

I strongly doubt that the JMT in summer will be covered in such rock hard snow for very long, and it's probably better for those with no experience with such slopes to do a very easy thing and simply wait a few hours.

I wrote the same info in a different thread, but I'd say a big yes to the ice axe (and training/practice) and a no to crampons. The ice axe is to PREVENT you from sliding in the first place, through proper technique and self-belay. As my instructor in my winter mountaineering course said (i paraphrase): "once you start sliding, you've already lost." You DEFINITELY don't want to think that that axe is going to stop you before you hit some rocks (e.g. Forester). So get one, learn to use it, and practice. I have an old Cassin Ghost, but if I bought one now, I'd probably just get a Camp Corsa 70cm one at REI. Also, remember that you look like a bad-ass in your photos at Forester if you are holding your ice axe aloft. :)

In 2004, I'd say you didn't need an axe, but that was a low snow year followed by a spring of incredibly hot temperatures, so the snow was greatly reduced when we hit the High Sierra starting June 10 or so. I'd say get it in Kennedy Meadows drop box, and send it home as soon as you don't need it.

Crampons, I'd say no, for a few reasons. In June in the High Sierra, the snow is probably only hard first thing in the morning. So it's easy to hit a pass a day NOT at that time. We didn't worry about trying to do two, and in general we slowed down to 18 or so miles a day in the High Sierra… it's a bit more tiring hiking, and it's so pretty, there's really no need to rush.

I took crampons when I did the Sierra High Route in 2006 in LOTS of snow. We were on snow for most of our hiking time. We did use them, but only to descend hard snowy passes first thing in the morning (passes we had camped atop the night before, which we did fairly regularly). I was happy to have them, but we could've timed things different or just waited a couple hours. I bet we used them for six hours on the whole trip. That said, cruising across hard huge suncups with crampons is WAY better than crossing huge soft suncups without them!

In general, I've come around to thinking that snow is my FRIEND in the High Sierra. I'll take it vs. loose steep talus any day.

heading towards Forester Pass in a low snow year (2004)

…" cruising across hard huge suncups with crampons is WAY better than crossing huge soft suncups without them!"…

Part of my enthusiasm for crampons is sort of like new religion. I've owned a pair of crampons for 25+ years and only wore them for playing around. I always had the midset that they were for "ice climbing", not snow travel. That was before I recently bought a new set that work well with flexible boots- and from one short overnight trip I'm sold. I certainly didn't need them on the afternoon hike up- snow was soft from the sun- but still they helped me to power up instead of having to kick steps. The next morning again I really didn't need them- axe, careful boot placement, and going slow would have been fine. With the crampons though I could travel at will with a lot more security and speed.

Regarding ice axes- length depends not only on use, but also on how it fits your pack. "Walking cane" length is a real pain in the forest- if it sticks above your head when strapped to the pack. If you're carrying trekking poles too you probably wouldn't switch to the axe until the slope hits 30 degrees. In that case a shorter axe will be preferred.

Back to suncups- with hard cups and boot soles you tend to step down in the buckets. I can only imagine that with crampons you can dance the ridges. I keep thinking back to a 4 day trip in the Sierra over July 4 weekend, 1983. Except the first and last few miles, I never set foot on anything other than snow or rock. It's too early now to estimate what sort of snow cover the Sierra will have in June. Snowpack on April 1 will give a good clue but weather (temp, wind, rain) in the spring can either leave lots of snow or melt it away.

I definitely agree with you about how fun it is to move on HARD snow (e.g. first thing in the morning) with crampons. It's a joy. And then those suncups start to warm up in the morning sun, and your crampons get full of soft snow, then comes the inevitable time (much too soon) that you have to take them off, and just start slipping and sliding around. It's fun while it lasts.

"Walking cane" length is a real pain in the forest- if it sticks above your head when strapped to the pack."

Try stowing the ax upside down, i.e. with the head above the top ice ax loop and the pick hanging down below the bottom of your pack, secured by the lower ice ax loop. SOP on heavily forested approaches, at least up here in the sunny Northwest.

Brandon – Do you have a scale yet???

> snow is my FRIEND in the High Sierra. I'll take it vs. loose steep talus any day.
Yeah!

Cheers

Absolutely. I've been places early season (May) that were a cakewalk. Nice firm Sierra Cement to walk up, corn to glissade down. Came back August the next year and found scree and talus near the pass, endless willow thickets lower down.

Lakes are also easier to cross when they're frozen!

Well, I finally caved and got a 50 cm CAMP Corsa. I'll practice as much as possible with just keeping myself steady, and not falling. Now I just need to find WHERE I can practice.

Anyway, back to Brandon's gear list :)

"Walking cane" length is a real pain in the forest- if it sticks above your head when strapped to the pack."

Who hikes in a forest? I've never heard of such a thing.

Anyway, I'm tall so I like the 70cm length; if you are shorter, shorter is fine.

I'm carrying a Gatewood Cape plus bivy to start the Appalachian Trail, but wouldn't do so to start the PCT. Just go with the G.C. and no bivy to start with (do bring a head net for the *very* infrequent insect attacks in the first 700 miles).

After you get into the Sierras you could consider a bivy, but I'd go instead with the SMD Serenity Shelter that's made to go with the G.C.

Im thinking Ill get the CAMP corsa with my dividends and 20% coupon from REI when the time comes. Probably forgo crampons. Does anyone else think the bivy plus cape is overkill? I figured I wouldnt want to set it up every night and the bivy would simplify things. Thanks for the discussion!

I know I'd want some sort of covering to pull all my stuff under when it's raining. The cape isn't really big enough for that.

Edit: Oops, maybe it does have room for gear. I was thinking of another dual purpose poncho.

+1 on bivy + cape overkill

Your just not likely to see that much rain to make it worth while. I also found for cowboy camping that the bivy trapped moisture rather than helping much.

You don't need a bivy, just a good ground sheet and you can sleep under the stars most nights. I did and loved it.

Sometime in early to mid june (depending on the temps) you'll hit mosquitoes. You'll need something for this. A headnet and you can survive (you'll want one regardless to keep from eating bugs while walking). But it's nice have a little more bug free space. Since you have the cape the SMD nettent is a great option. If you already have the bivy that will work fine too.

I'd actually recommend crampons as more useful than an ice axe. First it's always better to not fall than to self arrest. Second nothing is that steep that you can't arrest with hands or trekking poles IMO. The camp 6 point crampons (7 oz) are what I used and felt a lot more comfortable walking with them than without. My ice axe was never in my hand so totally useless dead weight.

I think I am going to back off from buying the bivy then… its a lot cheaper to buy a gossamer gear ground sheet! I may switch my sleep pad to a Gossamer Gear Thinlite 1/8 and a Nitelite Torso since people seem to really like this lightweight and relatively comfy combo.

"Who hikes in a forest? I've never heard of such a thing."

It's a Northwest tradition. But we have trails, too, for tall people with long ice axes. ;}

Instead of a GG ground sheet, you might consider going to your local hardware store and buying a little box of window insulation "shrink to fit" plastic. I think Frost King is one brand, I got my local Ace hardware house brand. There was a thread about this on this site you can search for if you like, but basically it's the same polycro. The benefits are (a) no shipping charge (but maybe sales tax) if you buy locally, and more importantly (b) you can get a larger size and cut it to fit. I did that with my Gatewood Cape; the size that GG sells isn't bad, but I find it handy to have a piece sized to fit the entire inside of the cape (which is indeed big enough to put my stuff inside). Mark one or two points to make it quick and easy to get it properly oriented inside.

In terms of ice axe vs. crampons (or both or neither) — note that people's recommendations on this might vary some based on the particular snow conditions that they encountered. I went through in a relatively low snow year. Still lots of snow on the passes though, but my personal experience was that I needed neither axe nor crampons, and so mailed both home along the way. That Camp axe you're looking at seems like a fine choice to me, assuming that you know how to self-arrest and to make the assessment of when it's best to carry the axe (perhaps putting away poles to do so). I too personally tend to stick with poles — I guess you could consider a self-arrest pole (no experience).

Bottom line is that if it looks like a lot of snow I'd still probably bring both a light axe and 6-point crampons, or maybe Kahtoola microspikes. Your resupply plan impacts this too a bit — I resupplied in Independence, which gave me the option to mail some stuff home relatively early on after I had first climbed Whitney and gone over Forester Pass — I.e., had a better in-person sense for what conditions were like.