enLIGHTened quilts help

if there is significant snow left, i'd definitely say YES to an ice axe (of the 8oz variety) and the skills to use it correctly. and i'd say a guarded NO to crampons, as you won't need them at all (or almost at all) on the PCT at that time of year.

Thanks Dave. I am looking into getting an ice axe now. It looks like there will be a lot of snow, but I will reevaluate a week or so before I leave and decide on the ice axe idea. Heard a lot that I dont need the crampons, so those are out. Is it correct to carry the ice axe only from Kennedy medows onwards through the Sierras? Where do you think I can learn properly about the techniques needed for the ice axe? Dont want it to become a weapon, but I dont have much ice out here to play around with.

hey evan.

yeah, i'd say you only need it from Kennedy Meadows to somewhere after that, i suppose Reds Meadow or Tahoe (i forget when the actual dangerous passes end). we didn't really need them at all in 2004, but that was a very early melt-off. there's some chance of snow and ice along Fuller Ridge in the San Jacintos, but it's hard to say now what those conditions will be like in early May.

however, and very importantly, the ice axe is of almost NO value to you if you don't know how to use it, and have practiced using it. i took a winter mountaineering course before i did the PCT and was happy i did (though we weren't on too much snow in 2004).

and note that the ice axe is there to PREVENT you from sliding in the first place, ideally not to STOP you once you start sliding. you need to learn to use it to climb safely, in balance (there are many more folks much more experienced than me with this on BPL).

also, the ice axe isn't really for ice (at least a PCT 8 oz one). it's really for being on those intermittent steeper, harder snow faces, where the snow has covered switchbacks. if it's actual ice (and it won't be), that's crampon time!

no worries… the High Sierra with some snow is one of the best places in the world! (thread drift over)

just below muir pass, late june 2006.

3" of loft is currently near $500. A bit expensive, but it will be well worth it if I use it for the entire trip. Seeing as how it's a small fraction of the weight and bulk of my current system, it's going to add a lot of comfort at every point in my hike. I'm just hoping I can cram all my gear into a lightweight pack. My pack is huge, but also very heavy. Switching to a lightweight pack like the MLD ARK would shave over 5 lbs from my system. Unfortunately I can't buy a new pack until I have everything that's going in it.

The 20 ounce estimate came from the calculator.

I was actually planning on going with a cheap blue pad too, doubled up under the torso for the colder sections, but I got a great deal on my pad. $40 for a POE Mtn High. Given the way it's performed so far, I'm very happy to carry it with me. It's bulky, but oh so warm. First night I had it my feet were freezing until I realized they were hanging over the end of the pad, but they were toasty once I moved my pad beneath my feet. Still though, I don't recommend such a pad for most people. Most people would be better off being picky enough to find campsite with thick dry forest duff. If you're going to sleep on rock or directly on the trail in freezing temps, then you'll need good protection between you and the ground.

I don't see anything wrong with going cheap. Go for the blue CCF and trashbag. A big trash bag can even serve as a pack cover and poncho. Add a few slits for air flow and I think you'll do okay.

I just checked my weights again. I'm sitting around 50 lbs for my heaviest load with only the Hexamid as a shelter. Of course this is mostly due to water, so I'll under 35 lbs in the Sierras with a full load of food, crampons, ice axe and extra clothing. Cut that to 30 lbs if I get a new pack. There are a few things I'm bringing that push the weight up, so you can probably do much better.

If you want to do a mountaineering course locally, look up MtnNed. He does courses for PCT hikers. Free too.

If you can't do a course, and can't practice where you're at, at least read "Mountaineering – The freedom of the hills" and watch some Youtube videos.

I haven't been able to practice yet. I'm hoping the snow pack in my local mountains gets thick and firm enough to facilate practice. If that doesn't work, I'll be searching out a short snow bank on the trail to practice on. There's a risk that I'll gouge myself while practicing, but that's a hell of a lot better than screwing up if I fall.

Dave is right about crampons. You don't need them. It can open things up a bit, but you don't have to have them. They can make things much worse if you don't practice falling with them.

If you feel you need some winter skills for the Sierras, I posted this to another forum. The class is well worth it.

Hi, folks!

I just wanted to let you know about a great resource we have here in Northern California. Mtn Ned teaches a snow course at Echo Lake, which I took this past weekend. It’s mostly aimed at PCT thru-hikers, but it does teach the basics of camping in the snow, route finding in winter and self-arrest skills.

Ned is a great teacher who loves what he does. He has extensive hiking (PCT & CDT) and ski-touring experience in the Sierras. There is no charge for the class – only donations accepted.

More info can be found here:
http://postholer.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25&sid=206fa14d8c74853ea04f58a353f28527

I posted some photos from the class here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfrescosf/sets/72157623210148399/show/

I’d love to get the word out about the course, so please share this info. (I have no affiliation, just a happy graduate!)

Happy Trails –
Lisa

Dave: Thanks for double checking that- figure I will bring it from K.M. till I decide I dont need it anymore. I look forward to being able to say that it is the best place in the world with as much conviction as you Dave! That pic is awesome.
Eugene: ahh 500 bucks that is a ton. I hope to see ya on the trail and check out your killer bag, but I think I will have to pass this time…just…wow
Thanks for the reassurance too on the cheap way. I hope that it will work but I get nervous on here when everyone is talking about very expensive stuff. Sounds like you are packin pretty heavy, but at least you know how to lighten the load should you choose too.

As everyone here jumped on, I will have to learn to use the thing so that I dont hurt myself. I will look at the youtube videos and read as much as possible.
Lisa: you said that class is at Echo lake? how do I get there? Is there an airport nearby? It sounds like a great class and I would love to do it! What a cool guy to have something like that. Those pictures are very intense!

I don't want to hijack the thread (love the quilt talk though).

email me or PM me for info. I have been trying the southern sections lately and the weather is unbelievable for SoCal. This is already as big a year as 04 and Fuller Ridge will be bad for sure as we are much colder than normal as we keep getting more precip.

I have to say that I have needed crampons many times in May and June in the Sierras along the PCT around Whitney and in SEKI. This year should require them if you want to be safe at the higher passes.

Dave and I just had to break up a trip this past weekend after we bailed on Lake Morena and went up to Mohave. There was too much snow above Rosamond so we did above it to the 58 and below to the 138. Lots of snow from 3500 ft up and lots of mud below. I have never been so wet in my life.

will PM you about all that- cant believe its that crazy already

>>>A cuben quilt in the SE? Where/when do you plan on using that? I would get no use out of it.<<<

You never travel outside of the southeast? I'm all over the map.

You never travel outside of the southeast? I'm all over the map.

Rarely. I've been to the Rockies and will be there for 3 weeks July/Aug and I was in the Whites Sept last year. I've not experienced conditions that would warrant a full VB layer. It would likely have to be below zero F ambient temp for me not to take a bath in one. For the expenditure of something so specific as a Cuben quilt I would need to be somewhere I'd use it > 50% of the year. I can't justify a purchase that would sit in the closet 99% of the time but I'm in a slimming down state of life and I run pretty hot.

Ok so I went back to the quilt calculator to find out what a hypothetical quilt would weigh, but I cant figure it out. I want to know how much a quilt would weigh with .48 cuben and fit me at 6'3. Probably the Epiphany Xp (synthetic) because of cost savings, with Combat 7.4
can someone explain this to me?
I found the drop down box and clicked on 7.4 combat to get 7.4 oz. of insulation (probably best for PCT conditions?)
With a straight taper, that gave me 1.1 oz shell and total of 2 oz? I would like the cuben .48- cant figure out what to do with these numbers to get the total weight of the 6'3+ quilt. Am I missing something? Thanks

With these options:
> straight taper
> 80" long
> 46" shoulder
> 40" foot
> .48 oz cuban fiber shell
> 7.4 oz combat insulation

I get 24.19 oz.

Hi Evan,

For the synthetic part of the calculator you need to enter in 3 numbers (head, foot, length) and then select three values from the drop down box (taper, shell material, insulation).

Once you have selected all those values then the calculator will give you an estimated weight for the quilt under "Total." The "Shell Oz" and "Insul Oz" columns are the weight per yard.

I am not suggesting these values, but just some values to give you an idea, you can try 49 inches for head, 37 inches for foot, and 78 inches for length. With combat 7.4 and .33 cuben that will give you an estimated weight of 22.86 oz with a straight taper and 24.31 with a half taper.

Awesome. I finally get how to use this thing. For some reason though I keep getting totals which when using 20D ripstop its lighter than .48 cuben- this cannot be right, can it? Using 80/40/52 as my dimensions (dimensions listed on enlightened website for those under 6'4, i.e. me) I get 35.51oz with cuben .48 and 28.12 with the 20D Ripstop. However according to the chart on the right, the 20D should weigh .9oz per yard, and the Cuben .48 per yard- is this a glitch or am I doing something wrong? Thanks for the patience guys.

For some reason it doesn't seem to calculate for cuben fiber, even though it's listed. If you type .48 in the column next to your measurements, it should work out. Some of the cells are locked, but if you cut and paste them to a new sheet you'll be able to edit them.

Awesome thanks Eugene- got 25.42 for synthetic quilt with straight taper .48oz cuben 52x40x78 this is great

Currently I have narrowed down to 2 options.
1. Quilt kit 800+ thruhiker down bag 15oz down Momentum fabric and MLD superlight bivy Long Approx. total weight: 29.5-30oz Total Cost: 270 USD

2. enLIGHTened XP quilt with .48 cuben and 7.4oz/6.2oz Combat approx. weight:26oz/22oz Total cost: unknown (with .33 265USD)

QUESTIONS:
1. Would it be comfortable to use the XP synthetic quilt while cowboy camping on the PCT and under a small poncho/tarp without a bivy, relying on the waterproofness of the .48 cuben?

2. Should I request 7.4oz or 6.2 oz cuben for PCT conditions? Stated temp ratings: 7.4oz=15*F 6.2oz=20*F

3.Should the XP insulation get wet, will the momentum fabric be enough to dry it out in reasonable time?

Possibly more to come…
Thanks in advance

Sorry I missed this guys.

I had recently updated QuiltCalc and i made a mistake with the .48, i had the weight as 2.2oz. I have fixed this and reworked the formulas to make future adjustments easier.

Earlier in the thread there were questions about accuracy and they are founded. For the estimations to be close the actual weights of materials have to be close. I have made a lot of quilts since the first edition of QuiltCalc and only 5ozXP seems to be off by any more than .5oz. The 5oz has always run heavier than estimated. My assumption is that it is heavier than advertised (read warmer)

Tom asked if i add in seam allowances and at this time i don't because i haven't found the need already being withing .5oz on most quilts. IF you want to add in the seam allowances just to see add 2" to every dimension (head+2", foot+2" and length+2")and that will give you a more accurate (closer than .5oz)idea. In fact it may make the quilt lighter than the estimate as i add 2oz to all quilts in the calc to account for cords and drawtubes and zippers and the little extras. On some quilts (epiphany lines) i use tiny little cords that add next to nothing so there is a little free weight floating around in there.

Justin,
Your quilt is on the table as this discussion runs. I am going to finish all the baffling today and get it ready for down. My folks are coming to town this afternoon so not sure how much more i'll get done til the weekend.

-Tim

Tim: Thanks for the new calc.

Anymore insights as to insulation on the PCT or use of the cuben w/o a bivy?
Thanks

with the synthetic quilt you get even more weather protection as there are no needle hole from baffling and instead of a stripe down the middle i do these with a triangle of 20D Nylon at one of the head corners. This lets in enough air to loft the whole thing and gives the highest level of water protection. If the insulation gets wet, your face is getting wet.

For 20* the 5oz XP combined with the VB and your insulating clothes should handle it for sure, if you sleep cold or just want added security go for 6.2 COMBATXP or 7.4COMBAT

-Tim

Tim: Thats awesome, sounds like I could get by without the bivy then. Is that 20D nylon the same as momentum? Both are .9oz correct? I like the weight of the 5 of course, however I tend to sleep cold and will not be bringing much if any insulating layers. Just dont like em.
Can you comment on how a quilt like this would work in warmer temps? Dont really want to switch bags every few weeks on the trail. Was thinking about a drawstring closure or something in the foot area for venting. I will always take your wise opinion. Thanks for your patience.

if you don't bring insul gear and sleep cold go 6.2.

All my quilts are flat and use zip/drawcord to make the footbox. This allows full venting in warmer temps. When it is hot you will just lay it on you. If you get too hot you will stick your arm or leg out to cool off, like sleeping at home kinda.

-Tim

Tim,

Did you ever find out if you can load Java applets onto your webpage? I'm still willing to code your quilt calculator into an Applet if you're interested.

Send me an e-mail or PM if you want to go ahead with that.

John

can you e-mail me something i can put up to test it? Thats the only way i know to find out.

It is important to me to be able to change things in it with little experience. The reason it was off before was because another customer updated what i made originally and when i tried to edit it i screwed it up. I had to take some time learning what he had done (he did awesome, i'm the fool) to figure out how to make the changes i wanted.

-Tim