versatility in a shelter choice?

IME, the Tarptent has been satisfactory under all those conditions. That said, I am eyeing the Moment with a lustful eye. My main concern is that I have grown spoiled by the Rainbow's ample headroom and useable space and think the Moment would be less satisfactory in those regards. A necessary tradeoff for less weight and an easier pitch I guess. Still cogitating…..

MLD Mid with Bug inner tent. Modular. Bug proof in summer. Bomber design in winter and rain.

I'm with David on this. Most versatile shelter has got to be the MLD Mid/Duomid with the inner bug tent.

Really covers alot of scenarios.

Having used a Megamid snow camping last year, I'd say a mid-type shelter combined with a net inner would suit all those circumstatnces.

Most versatile for me would be what I have – tarp, hammock, sleeping pad. Hang from trees, cracks in rocks or posts – use the bugnetted hammock on the ground like a bug bivy with the tarp pitched in a wedge, A frame, lean-to, flying diamond or whatever suits. Though I have been absolutely comfortable in howling gusts of wind in hammock mode with all eight loops staked to the ground with the ends closed.

I don't go out in snow typically, but we did get some last August. Tends to slide off the tarp pretty well when the sides are pitched at the right angle. Rain and wind are no problem.

"My main concern is that I have grown spoiled by the Rainbow's ample headroom and usable space and think the Moment would be less satisfactory in those regards."

Me too, actually. Which is why you need to seize the Moment, buy the Moment and live the moment — and bring it with you on our next hike to share the Moment — so I can do a real compare/contrast.

Carpe Momentum!

–B.G.–

+1 lori

"Which is why you need to seize the Moment, buy the Moment and live the moment — and bring it with you on our next hike to share the Moment — so I can do a real compare/contrast."

And all this time I've been looking to YOU as the Gear Enabler!! I would never make such a momentous purchase without you having thoroughly test the Moment first.

I know, I know, baaad pun.

I see the different arguments for each. for hammock and tarp you need to have trees or something else you can attach it to. you can't use the tarp and bug net on hard surfaces and you will probably have to have a bivy also. the moment is a one piece that doesn't allow it to be separated out and your load lightened up.

I've never tried hammocking. But looking at the sparse trees out here in Southern Cal… I have my doubts. OTOH, I am sure they are just fine back East or in the PNW.

In the PCT Sleep System thread, Brian says this:

Most times I find that I have to add significant weight to be reliably warm enough in a hammock vs. a single wall tent or tarp/bivy combo.

which is the thing I keep coming back to whenever I start to look at hammocks. When I spec them out, it seems like it will add a minimum of a 1lb to my shelter/sleep system, if not 2lbs.

Now if hammocking is the most comfortable way for you to sleep, then that pound or two is certainly worth it. I spent a lot of nights sleeping on a hammock in Mexico, and it took awhile to get the hang of it, but it was pretty comfortable when I did, but all I needed then was a light sleeping bag over the top of me, if that.

For cooler temps, when you need to add an underquilt and the same ccf pad you would if you were on the ground, and you can sleep comfortably on a short NeoAir, as I can, I'm not sure hammocking makes as much sense.

PS: I'm not trying to start a hammock vs tent flame war.

I just can't get past the fact that you're pretty much restricted to camping below treeline. Lots of other shortcomings from my perspective but I, too, do not want to start a flame war so I'll leave it at that. SYOS

Hammocks work well where I am from as there are trees everywhere (i.e. no big views) but they weren't for me. I just never could sleep on my back and couldn't get comfortable in one. It was also heavier than my ground shelter even in the summertime so I gave it up.

First of all THERE IS NO PERFECT system!!

I look for the least weight to cover 99.9% of my needs. For me it is a tarp; and tarps are not for everyone. I can use a head net for flying bugs, which are an infrequent problem and bugs don't seem to like me much anyway.

Even on hard ground/boulders, I can usually find a way to pitch it. Also, keep in mind I don't pitch a tarp unless the weather is bad.

Here is a picture of my typical campsite. Took me an hour to find a level site with enough sand and lack of plants/rocks to lay out my sleeping bag. There is no other sysem I could use in the limited space.

This is what works for me. In this picture I am using a MLD poncho tarp and MLD bivy. However, I am gravitating back to a ~ 8 X 10 tarp, and dispensing with the bivy.

I am not trying to convert anyone!!!!!!

> you're pretty much restricted to camping below treeline

Why? I do not have a hammock, but I would think that above treeline you would use it on the ground — secure the ridge with your trekking poles so the net and roof are off your face.

Is there a problem with that? I understand that if you camp most of the time above treeline a hammock may not be your first choice. But if you commonly camp lower and want to use your hammock above treeline some of the time, I would expect it to work.

— Bob

Hammocks certainly aren't for everyone. I agree with David that the MLD Mid with bug inner is one of the most versatile shelters you can get. It's my preferred shelter in cold weather (without the bug inner if it's cold enough for no bugs, but with my bivy). But I love my hammock as well, and my hammock is my preferred shelter in warm weather. Yes, it's heavier than other options, sometimes by quite a bit. But I've never slept as comfortably anywhere (except on my Tempurpedic mattress) as I do in my hammock. Not even close. If it's a short trip, I'll carry the hammock in winter as well.

"I would think that above treeline you would use it on the ground — secure the ridge with your trekking poles so the net and roof are off your face."

Yes, works quite well, actually. You should have some sort of groundsheet to protect the bottom of your hammock though.

"Why? I do not have a hammock, but I would think that above treeline you would use it on the ground — secure the ridge with your trekking poles so the net and roof are off your face."

Not sure I understand. Why would I want to use a hammock on the ground? What would be the point?

"Not sure I understand. Why would I want to use a hammock on the ground? What would be the point?"

Well, you wouldn't get a hammock to use on the ground, but you could encounter situations where you don't have the trees you thought you would, so you have to go to ground. It's nice to know you can, and actually adds to the versatility of a hammock.

Thanks for all the information so far but I would like add another layer on. It seems most of the information so far is for the colder temperatures while where I live I experience a far broader range. How about when it gets up to about 90F at night? I don't think I would like to be in a hammock then or a bivy bag let alone under a sleeping bag. Now add bugs onto that.

To me, the most versatile shelter is a double wall with mesh/fabric inner.

If you don't mind a nylon coffin, get a tarp/bug inner combo set up for the lightest weight — with double wall advantage.

If you do want some room to move around — then get a 'conventional' double wall tent.

But if your heart is set on a less versatile single wall solo tarptent — then the Moment looks pretty good to me.

I have a TarpTent Moment and it's even better than my former TT Contrail, especially in windy situations.

Search for Moment threads and you'll see why it is so popular. The design is so well executed. And the details are really good.

The Moment does work in most 3 season situations. Snow without wind would be no problem, even heavy snow, IF you guyed the canopy to sticks or hiking poles placed at each end and tied to the tieouts at the canopy mid points on each side of the top.

Windy snow would be the only problem, given the 360 perimeter netting for ventilation. You would need to cover this with gear to keep out spindrift snow and velcro shut the windward roof and end vents. Building snow walls would help a lot too, I know B/C I've done it for high winds alone, no snowfall.

The Moment's vestibule is one of its best design points, very useful. And the headroom is in the most useful loation.

Tom,

> Not sure I understand. Why would I want to use a hammock
> on the ground? What would be the point?

You would not use your hammock on the ground if that was a large part of your nights.

But consider the case of someone who mostly camps where they can hang their hammock above the ground — from trees, rocks, whatever. Fortunately, for those comparatively few times they are where there are no trees — grassy meadow, above treeline, whatever, they have a sane fallback way to use their hammock.

— Bob