mid-cut, off-trail hikers to carry heavy pack

any opinions out there?

Hi John

I think the problem is that your requirements are a long way from what the average Backpacking LIGHT member uses.

> – ankle support and grip for medium terrain
We prefer to strengthen our ankles instead

> – waterproof
Never works. There's this big hole at the top …

> – cushioning for a backpack up to 18-20kg (40-44pounds)
That is WAY above what most BPL members would carry – way, way above.

Can we convert you to lightweight gear instead?

Cheers
Roger
(Sydney)

I can't give any specific recommendations. I used trail runners to haul a heavy pack (at one point 43 lbs for a 10 day resupply) through the sierra. I have sort of weak ankles. I just took it slow, used trekking poles, and they got stronger over time. Roger is right about waterproofness. If it's that warm, just get something really breathable that dries fast. The one downside is that vibram soled trail runners are very hard to come by. I think The North Face makes some, but I have no experience with them.

I'd recommend buying based on fit though.

John,

From your post:

>waterproof<
>cushioning for a backpack up to 18-20kg (40-44pounds)<
>use in temperatures below 25C (77F)<
>preferably weigh less than 1kg (2.2pounds) per shoe<

From Roger's post:

>> – waterproof<
>Never works. There's this big hole at the top …<

I'll second Roger's point about waterproof shoes. I've bought them, used them and have had buckets of water inside of them. Nothing will keep water out of shoes if the water goes over the top! On my last hike I never went over the tops of my low hikers. It did however rain for 6 hours the first day. Due to a combination of persperation and rainwater running down into the shoes I was walking in full "water buckets". Guess what, these shoes are lined with a well known "waterproof" membrane. Breathable or not, the rate of the water coming in exceeded the rate that it could "breathe" out.

You list cushioning as something you'd like and you reference it to your pack weight. You answer your own question later in your post.

>if anything has to give, it'll be the cushioning (I'll cut the pack weight)<

Cut the pack weight and keep the cushioning. You can have both! BTW I overpronate like a pigeon toed duck with broken ankles and I use low quarter hikers. IMO mid or high top hiking boots do little to control or protect your ankles. I've used and worn both and haven't had an ankle problem yet. (Knock on wood, I feel the pain a comin'.) :-)

Can you exercise and strengthen your ankle?

You're headed in the right direction and that is a good thing for a hiker. :-) You say you would like your shoes to be less than 2.2 lbs per shoe. Trail runners can be had in weights as low as 2.7 lbs per pair! Your choice of shoes/boots is a strictly personal one and I'll not recommend any particular shoe or boot. Shoe choice IMO should be based on comfort, stability, traction and weight. For reference purposes I provide the link below as an example only. Copy and paste it to your address bar and it should take you directly to the correct web page.

http://www.rei.com/product/792620

BTW you may see this link as somewhat humorous as we all seek comfort from our choice of hiking shoes. :-)

What low temperatures due you expect to see while hiking? You mention the upper limit but no lower "extreme". I am a summer hiker. I do not have experience with snow and colder temperatures. I'll defer to anyone else who has first hand experience in these areas.

Good luck and good footing. :-)

Party On ! 2010

Newton

I am happy with my trailrunners 90% of the time but I do have a pair of Asolo FSNs which get the other 10% use which you might want to take a look at. I have been very happy with them.

http://www.rei.com/product/667406

Direct answer: I use Keen and Merrell products with good results. IMHO, HiTec makes terrible stuff.

Like the others said, waterproof shoes are not a panacea. I do think waterproof boots help in snowy winter conditions.

As to your ankle, I would consult a sports medicine doctor/physical therapist team.

IMHO, support is more important than padding. The medical types can help with proper orthotics. You may be able to use a commercial product like Superfeet.

As to the pack weight, LIGHTEN UP! Ultralight is just what you need for that ankle. I don't know what you are carrying, but keep in mind that the team on the Arctic 1000 carried 55-60 pounds each at the start and that was mostly food. Unless you are carrying a lot of photo or scientific gear, you can cut your 44 pound pack weight in half without using radical gear.

+1 on strengthening your ankle, not focusing on waterproofness and lightening up your gear.

You can strengthen your ankle at home with a variety of simple exercises, especially one's using balance gear like a Bosu ball. Or just go hiking on uneven terrain.

I find light waterproof shoes with light waterproof eVent gaiters are helpful on shorter hikes. But in sustained moderate to heavy rains over many hours or days your feet are going to get wet and they are going to stay wet longer if you have a waterproof membrane. I do prefer waterproof shoes for winter, like the Keen Growler with 200g Thinsulate – very light and supportive boot and my feet always stay dry – it's my go-to winter and snowshoeing boot.

There's a highly anticipated shoe from Montrail – the AT Plus – that's supposed to be like the Montrail Hardrock 08, which many hikers liked very much. That's the shoe I'm looking forward to, but I'll also try others from innov8 and other companies. I have to replace my hiking shoes with shoes with a wider forefoot and toe box after developing a pinched nerve in my foot.

Also have a podiatrist or pedorthist check out your foot and gait so see if you could benefit from shoes or orthotics that offer good motion control.

Also, lighten your gear! Every part of you will be better off for it, not just your feet, and you'll enjoy your trips more.

"any opinions out there?"

John,

Now that you've had several eloquent posts arguing for lightening up and using low cuts because mid ankle/high tops don't provide ankle support, I am going to give you an opposite opinion, based on the assumption that you may have reasons for such a heavy pack, e.g. climbing gear, extended routes with no resupply, etc. A properly designed mid ankle shoe does, IME, supply enough ankle support to arrest an ankle roll short of a sprain(or worse). Tony Beasley recently posted a very informative mini-meta study that contained results both pro and con, so at least some serious people have found data supporting the ankle support hypothesis. My personal experience definitely falls in this category. With this in mind, I would suggest you browse the La Sportive website under the backpacking/hiking shoe section. They have several mid ankle shoes, both GoreTex and non-GoreTex that weigh ~2.5# for a pair that may meet your requirements. I suggest La Sportiva because I used to use their Trango Guide, a mid ankle approach shoe that would have met your criteria admirably. I used them in some pretty rough country for several years when I was still carrying 35-40# and transitioning to borderline UL. Unfortunately, they are no longer made, but I noticed that several shoes in the section I mention above appear to be made on the same last. Worth a look, IMO.

Having said all this, I would heartily concur with the majority opinion that you should, if at all possible, lighten your load to the point where you may not need extra ankle support or find it in a lighter shoe, such as the Inov8 Roclite 390 GTX. There are overwhelming advantages to going light that are well worth considering. Browse through the forums and articles here and you will quickly understand what I(we) are talking about. Good luck.

As for GoreTex, +1 to Roger's pithy comment: "There is that hole". ;-}

this shoe will be for hiking in temps above zero, and doesnt have to deal with ice or snow.

ordinarily I wouldn't go hiking with 40 pounds on my back. But i'm travelling for 3-5 months, so between dress clothes, paper (mapbooks, guidebook), laptop and photo gear I don't think I can cut much.
with the sort of excursions I'm doing though, it should usually be possible to leave the 75L pack at basecamp or in a vehicle.

as for my ankle, after a series of injuries my physio said it will be chronically weak, though I haven't tried a consistent strengthening program since my therapy finished years ago

Also on the subject of ankle support, I found what J R says on this old BPL thread food for thought
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=4244

Like Jeff says here, hard, aggressive soles can be hard to find on trailrunners