AT Thru-hike Kitchen

This is what we used on our LT End to End last summer – http://www.longtrailhiking.info/end2end/preparation/40-food/163-trail-kitchen.html

We predominantly ate FBC style with our own dehydrated food from home.

We have a set date for an AT Thru beginning March 1 next year. For that I am switching up my kitchen from the simple Heineken pot and Pocket Rocket, to something a little more robust. Largely because we still intend to do maildrops with our own dehydrated food, BUT, we're only going to drop in enough for 4-5 days and supplement the other two days with store bought food. Therefore I want to be able to have cooking gear so that we can reliably have some variety.

Sooo.. for our 2011 Thru this will be my primary kitchen:
* – Kmart Grease Pot
* – Primus Gravity EF canister stove
* – 8 Inch 4 ounce fry pan
* – 2 ounce pot grabber
* – GSI Rehydrate Spoon
* – Fabric Freezerbag Cozy (instructions for sewing your own -http://www.longtrailhiking.info/end2end/preparation/40-food/153-myog-freezer-bag-cozy.html

It may not be SUL, but, I am hauling a 16 year old with me so I need options.

If you primarily plan to only boil water, consider what I posted in the first link and do something similar. If you package it in one of the quart Ziploc containers, it wont get damaged. The container also has the advantage of serving as a bowl for the Ziploc bag, a measuring cup, a coffee/tea cup, etc.

I have used both Alcohol and esbit. Esbit with a caldera cone (Anti-Gravity Gear) (Trail Designs) to fit your one pot is my preference. Esbit is lighter. But, try both. On a long hike you can do that. You will find which you like best.
The main advantage of each is that you will learn how much you use for one meal, so you can accurately judge how much you need to carry at one time. You will not end up carrying excess fuel.

FYI I found that 10 days worth of alcohol weighs about the same as a gas canister. However, you rarely have to carry 10 days worth of supplies along the AT unless you want to. But, the Snow Peak Ti-stove is an easy-to-use light option. (or MSR Pocket Rocket) Use the self ignitor type and you won't need matches.

Find some articles on stoves here:

http://thru-hiker.com/articles/

Charles- most of my hiking is along the AT, I use alcohol and mug for FBC. Alcohol is easy to get along the AT, most all hostels and outfitters will have it. In a pinch you can use Heet in the YELLOW container. I carry one or two Esbit for the just in case back up fuel.

Mug/Pot- It depends on how much you like to eat and what type of cooking you like to do as to what size mug or pot you carry. For me it's FBC, 2 cups of hot water, 600ml mug, I just switched to the MLD 850 mug so I can heat more water w/o a second boil and my entire kit fits inside the mug, with the exception of fuel which I prefer carrying on the outside of my pack.

This might seem like a series of silly question, but I am looking to change my kitchen and I am curious as to what others have found optimal.

What do you do with the extra water that you boil that is left in the 850ml mug? I assume you boil say 3-4 cups, pour 2 cups in the freezer bag. Do you then drink tea/hot chocolate out of the MLD 850 mug? Or do you use a different mug to drink out of? Or do you just use that extra water for cleaning, brushing teeth, etc. Also, if that is the case do you keep that water warm by using a cozy around the 850ml mug?

Jeff- I use only one mug for cooking and drinking. I boil about 3C and use 12-16 oz for my FBC, the rest is for a hot drink, I like the extra fluids at the end of the day. I use a cozy made out of thin reflectix (sp) to keep the contents inside the mug hot, usually for about one hour at temps around 40*F.

I would recommend the Trail Designs Ti-Tri UL Compact version with an inferno insert. For a minimum weight* of 2.3 oz, you get the titanium cone, Inferno insert, Gram Cracket esbit stove, and 12-10 Alcohol stove. This gives you an effective way to use Alcohol, esbit, or wood. I love mine. I use it with my MLD 850 pot, which weighs 3.4 oz. The whole kit weighs 5.7 oz and fits perfectly inside the pot. This is what I would take if I was doing a thru hike. Versatility is one of the most important features when considering gear for a thru hike, IMO.

* By minimum weight, I simply mean that it does not include the weight of the optional titanium floor (to prevent burn marks in wood burning mode), which weighs 0.3 oz. This also does not include the weight of two titanium stakes required to hold up the pot, since you will be carrying stakes regardless of whether you use this system or not.

-Sid

Thanks for the responses.

@ Grinch: that sounds like a good kit, especially since it is going to be split between you two. I am assuming that you all will be primarily useing your fry pan to bake right? could you elaborate on this more in relation to trail diet? I suppose I am asking you to justfy the weight. Just how many more options do you add with a 4 oz frypan?

@ JJ and Red Fox: I like the idea of the MLD 850 pared with an ULC Ti Tri Inferno. I have a regular Ti Tri Inferno For a SP 600 and I can vouch for their versatility. The only reason I don't want to use the SP 600 is the fact the cone is tall and the mug is short (isn't obviousness great?:).

I have toyed with the idea of carrying just a Brawny inspired brew kit containing: a FL 475, a Koolade/ country time drink mix container, a cozy, and a folding spork. However, it seems that there will be better options that weigh only slightly more, yet offer a much greater amount of that treasured versatility.

So I take it most folks prefer carry/ mail drop/ buy mostly dehydrated food and that they stay away from the 1 liter plus pot that you can cook regular rice, beans, noodles, and large amounts of trail bread in?

I have heard from people that at the end of the day cooking is just one of those chores you want to get done with quick so you can just rack out.

Keep the opinions coming. Is there anyone out there that has a different concept of trail food?

I don't think you'll get the same efficiency w/the Compact, and don't think that having the cones nest in the pot is a big deal… so it doesn't fit in the pot, who cares? It's not about getting "spiffy points." I love the Ti-Tri & Inferno; I use the 0.9L Evernew and a ti mug. That allows me enough volume to boil water for coffee and breakfast at the same time, pour off the water for coffee and cook oats. At dinners I can boil a little extra water for tea, then just dump food in pot and "cook." No more fuss than w/FBC; just add food to water in pot, stir, cover, and let sit ~10 minutes. Easy to clean, no messy bags to carry. If I do want to cook something, I don't have to worry about boil-over. W/minor alterations, the 0.9L is under 4 oz for the pot, and IIRC you can get it down to ~3.25oz or so.

For storage/transport of the TiTri I just roll it up and stick it in a cut-off Gatorade bottle, then shove my mug over the top. The cut-off bottle only adds ~0.5oz to my kit.

"I don't think you'll get the same efficiency w/the Compact, and don't think that having the cones nest in the pot is a big deal…" -Brad Groves

I agree, some efficiency is lost when you go with the UL Compact version versus the regular version. However, I doubt it is a very big loss in efficiency. I don't believe anyone has tested the difference in efficiencies between the two cones, but I would think it's probably a pretty small difference. For me, getting the UL Compact version had nothing to do with "spiffy points". In my mind, I got a lighter system that can do the same thing without any major sacrifice in function. The fact that it all fits inside my pot is just that much more convenient.

-Sid

"So I take it most folks prefer carry/ mail drop/ buy mostly dehydrated food and that they stay away from the 1 liter plus pot that you can cook regular rice, beans, noodles, and large amounts of trail bread in?

I have heard from people that at the end of the day cooking is just one of those chores you want to get done with quick so you can just rack out."

IMO…what happens is that as time passes you will start hiking longer days and more miles – and find that long cooking times get in the way.

It doesn't mean everything has to be dehydrated or done mail drop though. There is plenty you can buy along the way that is easy and quick to cook.

But 15 to 20 minute cooking times on normal rice is wasteful for fuel consumption and more so torturous when hungry ;-)

On pot size: take what works for you! If you want to buy pasta that cooks in 7 minutes and under, sure! Do it! But realize that a 1 Liter pot might be pushing it size wise. A little bigger gives you more elbow room for larger meals to be made (which by the 3rd month your meal size will be going up).

On cooking beans on the trail…outside of lentils this is something that just isn't worth the time. Do yourself a favor – use precooked and dehydrated beans that need only to be soaked to be eaten. Way easier.

Hey, Sid, perhaps I was a bit cheeky earlier. I don't think there's a huge difference in efficiency; I think the primary advantage is streamlining. The thing is, I'm not sure about stashing all my wood-burning stuff inside my pot (ie the ULC TiTri). Probably not a big deal; my mug caps everything now, and I just pretend that any leftover gunk is extra coffee grounds…

You asked for different perspectives so here is mine. I liked to actually cook on my thru hike. Lot's of pasta, instant brown rice, quinoa add in some spices, cheese, and meat or fish, and if I was lucky some dried mushrooms and I had a pretty nice meal.

So I used a 1.5L pot for this. I would say 1.3L is minimum to actually cook for a thru hiker appetite. I also carried a home made wood stove so I didn't need to worry about how much fuel I was using.

I didn't cook a lot at the end of the day I cooked in the afternoon as part of my break. Yeah it took a little longer but I wasn't in a huge rush. I needed the rest anyway. And the heavy carb meals were great for energy to finish the day strong. For dinner I would usually just munch on some bread, cheese, and salami + a few cookies and then crash. Occassionally I would through those ingredients over the fire for a quesodilla or grilled cheese.

To me freezer bag cooking is a something you do when you have the time to prep before a trip so as to make the time on the trail as simple as possible. It trades prep time for cooking time. That's great when going on weekend or even week+ long trips. You can do that preparation in 1 day and be done with it.

But it doesn't make sense for normal every day life. For me the thru hike became normal every day life. Grocery shopping and cooking were a part of that life and not a separate chore. For me that's the way I liked it. But I also like grocery shopping and cooking in general.

What ever you do I would say don't prep and box all your food before you start. It's amazing how fast the thing you most love becomes the thing you never want to see again for as long as you live.

One evening about half way thru my hike I wrote in my journal an ode to my love for nutella. The next day I couldn't stomach the thought of eating another bite of the crap and I didn't over the remaining 3 months of my hike.

Lot's of different ways to do it. You'll just have to try and see what works best for you. If you've already got multiple pots I would recommend leaving them with someone who can ship what you need if you decide to change your approach. If you don't everyone from the cottage vendors, to REI is more than happy to send to general delivery so you can get exactly what you want on the trail.

Being able to change significantly how I was doing things during the hike really helped my comfort level. And I think was critical in reaching my goals.

Edit: I looked back at this and realized I never answered the original question. My choice was for (2). I carried one large 1.5L pot and ate out of it. My stove rolled up and fit in side my pot so I could carry both in an outside pocket of my pack. One of the water bottles I carried was a nalgene cantene (1L) which could also be used for hot drinks.

I like the last post.
Nothing like real food when you are out on a long long hike. Makes a big difference.

I hae been fiddling around with some light kloc SS pots from publix and finally figured out how to bake something on a fire or stove. Stove is not really a reality since it takes a lot of time, but perfect on a fire.

You have more room for real cookware if you dont have to carry fuel.

Charles
Your "bones" kit is pretty close to the TiTri 550 kit with caddy.
The 550 mug is a bit small for some meals and anyway I prefer to just boil water in it ( so that my coffee does not taste of curry or tomatoes) and re-hydrate in a separate container (now the caddy)
Keep in mind that you use less fuel to boil 2x 500ml than 1x 1L (and so on…)
.
To save more fuel and for less fuss, make a snuffer. That allows you to put more fuel than you need (works better that way) and snuff the flame as soon as it is hot enough (for coffee) or boils. Then you tip the rest of the fuel into the snuffer and from that into your fuel container.

Franco
I have a shorter cone but a different size (1.3L) . On side by side tests the shorter one was less efficient (not by much) even using the much
wider pot.

Charles,

"@ Grinch: that sounds like a good kit, especially since it is going to be split between you two. I am assuming that you all will be primarily useing your fry pan to bake right? could you elaborate on this more in relation to trail diet? I suppose I am asking you to justfiy the weight. Just how many more options do you add with a 4 oz frypan?"

Last year on the LT and on our 14 days on the CDT, we relied solely on the first kitchen setup which was a canister stove, heineken can, etc. This works great for dehydrated meals but doesn't really give you any options to "cook" if you run into a town somewhere to grab something different. I remember getting into Manchester Ctr in VT and having a hankering for fried potatoes amongst other things (like stir-fry) but having a heineken can didn't really gives an option to do anything other than boil water.

So, we are carrying a 3.6 ounce Grease pot and the 4 ounce frying pan to give the widest options. I don't have a problem cooking eggs, frying a burger, whatever in the backcountry. Some people I am sure would just make dual use of a larger non stick pot but I have not personally had good luck with the two non stick pieces I have tried (GSI & MSR). Both of them over time have had problems with the non stick peeling. I figure since the frying pan wont be an item used everyday, I am willing to go with it to see what happens. 4 ounces for me isn't enough to worry about. However, just to be sure it will work out, we are going to use this extensively over the summer to ensure it will work out. Who knows, maybe other options will present itself over the summer?

For you though, I say go with what you THINK will work for you, experiment with it this summer and then expand upon it if needed, or change things up. There are so many options these days that everyone has their own idea of what is "light" and will work for them.

Again thanks for the responses.

I suppose we can add another slice to this discussion, nutrition.

I would assume that a FBC approach can only provide so many calories per meal in relation to you pot or mug size. You can't cook two packs of Ramen if you can only boil one cup. I would like some discussion from experianced thru-hikers in reguards to this angle.

If you FBCed the AT How did ensure you got enough calorie wise? Correct me if I am wrong, I assume you must have supplemented with lots of dry foods, town stops, and perhaps some trail magic too.

The idea of using wood and slaving over a meal might be bothersome to many but it also might yield better nutrition over the long term.

I understand their will likely be fuel issues whenever baking is involved, with cook times at 10-25 minutes or longer. I am still not sure weather I will even bother with this, and unfortunately I won't have a chance to do my own tests until I am back in the states.

Most of the hiking I've done here in Germany in my limited free time has been FBC / hot drinks over maybe a long weekend: thus I would only really carry a "bones" kit. I am well acquainted with the hunger that follows on days when you walk 12 or more miles with a pack. Over a long weekend you can easily suffer the reduced calories.

I was wondering if anyone had thru-hiked successfully and got enough calories with just a small bones kit?

@ Joe; I know the stanco GP pretty much has a cult following. I also think there must be good reason for this. So I am definitely interested at this point, I will be doing more research on it for sure.

As always keep the opinions coming especially if you do something different from these responses that have already been posted.

I think you'll get a lot better gear advice here, but there is also a Whiteblaze.net forum will be a good additional source of insights regarding appetite & preference changes, need for "real" cooking, nutrition versus what's available for purchase near the trail, etc.

The AT thru-hiker forum is at http://whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21

Baking is just an alum cup inside a SS cup inside a SS cup.
Not UL but SS it the only thing that can take the heat.

I have an old alum camp cup. I cut the handle off that.
If you are lucky it will barely fit into the small kloc cup from publix. If you dont have one just buy the kloc cup and take it small cup shopping.

Go to publix and get 2 kloc SS cups. They cost about $3.50 each. One is cup size, one is about liter size. Thay also make one that is about 2L size if you want a bigger pot.

Carefully pry the handles off. Tricky but it can be done without tearing a hole in the pot. They are spot welded and thin SS.

The dough goes in the smallest alum cup, greased.

That sits inside the small kloc cup. Make sure the bottom of the alum cup does not touch the bottom of the middle kloc cup, IE it should rest on the rim. Put about 1/8" water in the middle kloc cup to keep the bottom from burning. I have also tried it without water and the bottom just gets slightly burned but not bad. On a cooler fire it might be okay. I have to experiment more.

Cut off the top of a heineken can at the shoulder, IE about 3/4" high. Sit that in the base of the large can and the two others sit on top of that inside the largest cup.

Cover the largest cup with foil.
If you can find a hard SS lid, you could use it dutch oven like with coals and that would help.

Bake for about 15-20 minutes.

You can bake with about 1 cup of flour or biscuit mix max to make dough.

"I would assume that a FBC approach can only provide so many calories per meal in relation to you pot or mug size. You can't cook two packs of Ramen if you can only boil one cup. I would like some discussion from experianced thru-hikers in reguards to this angle.

If you FBCed the AT How did ensure you got enough calorie wise? Correct me if I am wrong, I assume you must have supplemented with lots of dry foods, town stops, and perhaps some trail magic too."

____________________________________________

I'll be honest in saying that last year we tried modeling our daily diet routine after Andrew Skurka's. Here was a typical day's diet with Calories:

Breakfast – Oatmeal mixed with dried milk, dried fruit, wheat germ and nuts – OR Granola with dried fruit and some oatmeal mixed in – On average our breakfasts were 650 – 700 calories. We also drank a cup of Twinnings English Breakfast Tea in the morning.

Through the day, we generally had 4 snacks at an average of 250 calories a piece, with one snack at mid day being 500. (These were usually Clif Bars, Powerbars, Snickers, Baby Ruths, Chocolate Pretzels, Almonds, Cashews, Etc)

Dinner – They were our own home dried meals. As an example:
* Chili Mac ( Containing Whole Wheat pasta elbows, homemade dried chili with alot of beef and beans)

*Taco Rice (Ground Turkey seasoned with Taco falvoring, onion, mixed with Jasmine Rice, Fritos Corn chips, and 2 packets of Taco Bell Taco Sauce)we also stuck string cheddar cheese in their we picked up at the grocery store along the way

Our dinners averaged between 650-750 calories. If it was chilly in the evening, we added a tbsp of Olive Oil for an additional 120 calories.

Right before bed, we had a "dessert" that usually consisted of pudding, some kind of cookie and nuts mixed in. These were good for another 500 calories.

This gave us an average of about 3000 calories and an average weight of 1.75 pounds per day.

By steadily dieting through the day, we were never hungry. We never got cold at night. On some days, even after 15 miles we were going to bed "stuffed"

In the past we used to survive on Ramen, Liptons, etc and I personally always had problems. I bonked alot. Got cold at night. It was inefficient for me.

The Ramen question you brought up, crumble two packages of Ramen into a Ziploc Freezerbag, add water and wait. It will re-hydrate without need for putting it into a pot. That's how alot of people get away with carrying small mugs. Mugs aren't for me but I commend those that are able to use them.

Anyway, last point. The majority of people who thru the AT will buy their food along the way. Nothing wrong with that approach at all. For us, we're going to drop 4-5 days worth per week, and use the extra couple of days to buy in the stores so we don't get bored and to be able to satisfy urges without blowing our budget. I have the unique position of having to finance this hike for two people, not just myself so these things are heavy on my mind. My wife and I had some fun recently going to the grocery store and picking out food for three days to simulate two hungry hikers, and to find the cost and the calorie counts. Surprisingly, we spent nearly double what it costs us to produce and dry our own meals, buy in bulk, etc. Calorie wise, we had good calories, but the real issue was breaking down the carb/fat/protein contents of those calories. That's where our own meal plan out-shined buying what was in the stores as we went.

I think our experiment and strategy last year allowed us two things:

#1 – Steady supply of calories through the day.
#2 – A proper mix between carbs, fat and Protein. The majority of the carbs in our store meals were simple carbs. Simple carbs WILL make you hungrier than if you have a proper mix in your diet.

Hope that helps.

Be flexible in your food.

While baked items may sound good now, they may not halfway into your hike – especially if it is hot outside. Same with long cooking meals. You might end up being a cold food eater.

Even the most gourmet eaters tend to fizzle out on long hikes. It becomes a searching for HOW much one can eat rather.

On nutrition of calories and fat concerning FBC meals…the most important thing to remember is that FBC meals are just FBC style meals. You can use the same recipes and concepts and prepare them in your pot. The point of using freezer bags is for ease of use. And that is it. What you put in your meals is up to YOU. You can eat light, you can eat heavy. Most people add oil to their meals to boost calories. You can have a salt fest, you can be healthy. You can be a meat head or a vegan.

To get an idea of what you can do recipe wise, these are all FBC meals on our website:
http://www.trailcooking.com/taxonomy/term/7%2B8 (we are the ones behind http://www.freezerbagcooking.com as well)

One doesn't have to eat that way but it can help a person see new ways to cook on the trail :-) And to speed up the process in camp by having cheat methods.

You mention Germany? One thing over here you will find is the land of convenience food products. It is almost to easy to be lazy while hiking ;-)

Again thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the attention that this topic has generated so far.

@ Franco: Thanks for the suggestions I will keep them in mind.

@ John: Thanks for the suggestion, I peaked at the site and I might do some exploring there later on.

@ Troy: Thank you for the information on the technique.

@ Joe: That sounds well thought out, I like the pattern. I am with you when it comes to Lipton or really any dehydrated soup mix, they have a tendency to be really really salty. I've always liked oatmeal and I think the mix you suggest is quite clever and functional.

@ Sarah:Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't settled on an approach yet. I realize that ultimate utility in just about everything is key and I am interested in what other people had done on their past thru-hikes. Trust me when I say I am no a gourmet eater, I've spent way to much time in the Army. That said I am also interested in perhaps mixing approaches or finding some unusually functional "third way". In fact, I half suspect this is what most guys end up doing until they settle into a pattern they like. I've got your book and I think there are a great many good ideas, some of your recipes though take up 2 to 3 cups of water. So I wouldn't be able to makes those styled meals with a "bones" kit. I am almost postive that I will be doing at least some FBC styled cooking, its inevitable. I am just curious and would like to hear about anyone who took a different perspective.

I don't want to be perceived as purely interested in just baking or just FBC. I like choice, its somthing I've generally not had over the past 5 years and I think it is a glorious thing when things don't have to be done in just one manner.

I also despise carrying large amounts of generally useless and redundant equipment on my back… but that's another story.

I have several friends that thru-hiked in 2009 and kitchen set up is definitely a matter of personal preference. My friends who hiked the AT all had different approaches to meals and this shaped their preferences for cooking in terms of stoves. But they generally all stuck with a .85 liter pot like the MSR ti pot/kettle. Which is the same size I use also.

I've been keeping track of meals I've cooked while hiking and this size pot is really versatile. I feel pretty confidant that I can cook almost anything I want using it. Would it be the most ideal means to fry something? No, but it's doable. And if I want a hot drink along with my hot meal… I just make it before or after. The only con is if you do want to cook multiple things you have to clean the pot in between.

So in my experience, the bare bones approach is too small, the pot is just right, and the luxe is overkill. Keep in mind that I have not thru-hiked… but I am attempting to do so this spring! All is just based on observations and what I have been testing on my own hikes, including a week long section with my friends while they were thru-hiking. But my opinions are also based around the meals I eat, and I don't fry things very often while hiking.

I'd be willing to wager a guess though… that if you end up going the two stove route you may earn yourself a related trail name! :)

Also in terms of mixing it up as far as meals go… I do a mix of freezer bag style and store bought. Often I will buy a pack of cherry tomatoes, or baby carrots or a green pepper plus a head of garlic and will pack that out to add to a plain bowl of pasta with olive oil. It's extra weight but to me is worth it because it makes variety so much easier. My thru-hiker friends added freeze-dried veggies (a lighter, smarter option!) to a ton of their meals. They also added peanut butter to thai-noodle style stuff for extra fat.

One of my friends did a ton of mail drops and made an effort to have a lot of variety – she seemed happier with her meals than my friends who did more grocery store stops. But I think the ideal method combines both.

" I think the ideal method combines both"

I would agree. If we had had a different option of cooking last year other than Heineken cans, it would have been alot more fun than hauling half a cooked pizza in my pack up a mountain ;)