2 Person Lightweight double wall tent

Sure. How does the curtain prevent blowing rain from entering the shelter around the perimeter mesh. To me, there is no difference from the curtain or a 'double walled' tent with a mesh inner if we are speaking about absolute protection.

I also find it funny that the discussion goes from Hillebergs to Stephensons to Tarptents – from double to single walled – from bomber to not bomber.

I too would recommend a close look at the excellent TarpTent Scarp 2.

High quality and lots of features, like 2 vestibules. I've owned two of TT's tents and found them to be well designed and of very high quality – and U.S. made.

"How does the curtain prevent blowing rain from entering the shelter around the perimeter mesh."

Although I haven't seen this happening, it certainly wouldn't stop snow or sand (or cold air) from blowing in. Keep in mind though that the DR can be pitched lower in these cases to effectively seal the fly edges to the ground, thus taking the mesh perimeter out of action. However, I was just throwing the DR in there as another option in the league of BigSky, i.e. double walled but not solid double walled. At least with the DR liner, unlike the BigSky and Stephenson's tents, condensation from overhead is less likely to drip onto you. Even the Stephenson's has mesh at ground level (something we had issues with), and the floor is not a true bathtub design, another design feature I consider essential where we hike and camp.

"I also find it funny that the discussion goes from Hillebergs to Stephensons to Tarptents – from double to single walled – from bomber to not bomber."

Which is why I asked if the OP could clarify what he is expecting in a "double walled" tent.

There isn't any ground level mesh on my Stephensons 2R Lynn. There is a vent at each end, but they are up above the ground. The tail end one is closable, and sheltered by the tent. The front one is covered by the door panel. I've never had any rain or snow blowing in.
I haven't had any condensation dripping on me either. :)

"I've never had any rain or snow blowing in.
I haven't had any condensation dripping on me either. :)"

Lucky on both counts. I can only compare it to the many other tents we have tried, and it suffered the worst condensation of any other when it was battened down for storm conditions, and the floor leaked before we seam sealed it, and we had dust blow in through the front mesh. It was a torture chamber sauna in hot buggy weather. A lot of folks are fans of these tents, but I am just adding my personal experience to the discussion. We really couldn't on-sell it quickly enough!!!

I want to be comfortable, don’t really want to rough it out. I thought a double wall tent will be better in achieving that.

It gets very hot here. Yesterday it reached 35degC. Often it gets over 40. So I mainly want a tent that will work well in the heat. It also rains a lot (on the coast), and if I head a little north, it’s hot and rains a lot at the same time. There are also lots of bugs, its Australia, so we have many dangerous snakes and spiders, but it’s the Mosquitoes that kill me.

There are some places that I want to go that will get cold, below freezing but it’s not likely it will be snowing. I do not plan to go there to soon, and winter here is not for 6 months anyway, chances are the best option would be a 2 tents, a winter one and a summer one.

I don’t know if I need a double wall tent, but I want to keep the bugs out, and also be protected from the rain, and I don’t want condensation. So you tell me, do I need double wall, do I need a mesh inner, or a solid inner?

It would be good to be able to open the door when it’s raining and not get the inside wet. And it would be really good to be able to close the outside door, take wet clothes off, before getting into the tent. Cooking out of the rain also sounds good to me.

It would be good if I could pitch it with out getting the inner tent wet if it was raining. Also would be good to be able to pitch it with fly only (will carry a ground sheet if needed), or inner only (it would be nice to see the sky if it was a clear night).

Inside, we need some room, we are not big people, but need to keep some very expensive gear out of the rain. Thinking 130cm x 230cm, or 170cm x 210cm.

So all that, plus the lighter and cheaper the better.

I know its not cheap, and heavy, but the Hilleberg Nallo 2 GT looks good, for summer I think I could use the Mesh Tent to save weight (does anyone know the weight of this combination?), and winter go with the full solid.

There are so mnany options, and I know I cannot get everything I want, unless I carry 3 tents… So looking for somehting that does most of what I want.

I know I'm dreaming, but surlly there is something close to what I want.

Thanks for the help.
BC

Sounds to me like the NalloGT will best suit your needs, though it's heavier than you originally wanted. The Vaude tent also looks pretty good, though not sure if you can pitch the inner on that one separately, and don't know if it has a mesh inner. It does sound to me like a mesh inner will be just fine for most of your outings. Maybe you could shoot Vaude an email and find out?

NM

hi ben,

there are lots of Aussies on here, so i'm sure folks can chime in (like Franco) about what makes sense for them. you have lots more biting, stinging critters down there than here in California (or Washington state) so your needs might be a bit different.

Does anyone have a link, or can explane how condensation formes in a tent, and ways of getting rid of it?

I use my 2R as a cold weather/winter tent, due to its good reputation in handling high winds, Lynn. It's been fine so far, but like most tunnel tents, can get a bit noisy in side winds. I'm having a 'hood' made that fits over the front pole. This will have guylines for extra sideways stability. I can also fasten a small tarp to it to create a shelterd entrance if i wish.
I realised before i bought it that it wouldn't suit me in hot weather. I agree that it wouldn't be the best in those conditions.

>>Does anyone have a link, or can explane how condensation formes in a tent, and ways of getting rid of it?

When you breathe, moisture in your lungs evaporates becoming humidity in the air. In tents that are not breathable enough, the moisture builds up faster than it escapes the tent, and the inside of your tent has a higher relative humidity than the outside conditions. Increasing the relative humidity decreases the dew point. If your breathing puts enough water in the air for the dew point to drop below the inside temperature (or the skin temperature of the interior of the tent), the moisture which evaporated from your lungs will condense on the inside of the tent (and on all your gear).

I was looking for a similar sort of tent and ordered a Tarptent Scarp 2 yesterday. We'll see how it goes when it gets here. It is available with both all-mesh and mostly-solid mesh-vented interior tents (true double-wall, the inner tent seals up tight) – I only got the mesh one because it doesn't snow and isn't sandy where I camp and doesn't really get that cold. It does let you set up the fly first and then clip the inner tent in, which is nice because it rains here a lot. With the $30 extra poles, you can set up just the inner tent, or set up the whole thing free-standing (including vestibules). Without the extra poles it weighs just over 1.5kg.

In cold weather, how do you control condensation, if the tent is breathable than it will get cold, and if you have vents they will let in the cold air as well.

Cold weather also means that the Dew point is lower.

"Thanks for the information Raymond, a couple of questions.

If it was raining, can you put the fly up first and then the inner?

How well does it handle high winds?"

Sorry Ben, I just noticed this.

They are not made to be put up fly first. You pretty much need to stand over them while attaching the clips, especially the H-clips.

The Copper Spur handles winds much better than the Seedhouse does. It has a great shape to it with no flat walls to grab wind when the fly is on.

Condensation is actually worst in cold weather (at least in my experience).

I guess the ideal case would be the inner tent lets water vapor pass through easily while stopping wind and keeping the inner tent warmer than outside. This way you get most of the condensation on the inside of the tent fly rather than on your stuff and the inside of the inner tent. Solid inner tent materials aren't all that breathable though so I like some kind of vent at the top of the inner tent to help out – since the fly is only open at the bottom, and the inner tent is only open at the top, wind inside the tent is kept to a minimum. It does make it a little cooler in the tent, but I have a warm sleeping bag and I don't camp where it gets THAT cold.

With a Scarp you can leave the inner and outer walls together, and pitch them as one. I haven't had a chance to use mine in the field yet, but I've pitched it a couple of times and found that it's quite easy to set up, even if you can't peg it before adding the crossing poles. (My first pitch was in my living room, so no pegging :))

Now I starting to get my head around it.

What would be the best style of tent? in the following contitions.

In hot, humid weather, with rain and wind
Single Wall
Double Wall Mesh inner.
Double Wall Solid inner.

In hot, dry weather, without rain and no Wind
Single Wall
Double Wall Mesh inner.
Double Wall Solid inner.

For Cold, weather, but no snow and wind.
Single Wall
Double Wall Mesh inner.
Double Wall Solid inner.

In hot, humid weather, with rain and wind
Double Wall Solid inner (mesh inner a close second).

In hot, dry weather, without rain and no Wind
Double Wall Mesh inner.

For Cold, weather, but no snow and wind.
Double Wall Solid inner (mesh inner a close second).

Ben:

Here's the way I look at it. For my first tent, if I want something light and versatile — I would get a double wall tent. Jack of all trades — almost. The best all around "go to" option.

Then, if I want, I would look for a second, lighter option to complement my "go to" tent above. For 3-season use in temperate areas with low to moderate humidity — why not save a pound or more by getting a single wall tarptent? But personally, I wouldn't opt for a tarptent to be my only tent.

Now, if you are convinced, then the next question might be: to get a double wall with mesh or solid fabric inner? If you plan to use this in mostly cold places, then get one with solid fabric (not great for summertime use, but it's probably better to be too warm than too cold at night). But otherwise, for general 3-season use, I much prefer a mesh inner. You can see the night sky (don't need to deploy the fly on clear nights) and it's just more comfy in warmer locales. But what about rain and driving wind?

When there is rain and humidity and lots of condensation clinging to the underside of the fly — my experience is that rarely if ever do the condensation drops actually drop through the mesh and into my mesh inner tent! Rarely if ever. The very few times that droplets do drop, they splatter across the mesh and wick along the side and harmlessly! And again, very, very few times.

As for driving winds — very interestingly (and I have tested this myself) — a mesh inner blocks a lot of winds! Almost all of it! Surprisingly, it is the slow-moving night air that a mesh inner allows to permeate through! This makes it really comfy for 3-season use, but can be drafty for truly cold nights.

I would recommend the Tarptent Scarp as others pointed out or the Lightheart Duo

http://lightheartgear.com/duo.html

The duo weighs in at 2 lbs or .9 Kilograms.

Cheers.

You may get different answers but personally:

Any kind of hot weather: double wall mesh inner.

Any kind of cold weather: double wall solid inner.

In hot, dry weather I would be tempted to camp in just a mesh tent (too many mosquitos here for something that doesn't close up), but most of my camping/backpacking is done with the Boy Scouts and as I am an adult leader I would get tossed out if I changed clothes where boys could see me.

Benjamin, excellent overview. So what do you suggest for him?

I'm in the market again myself for a lightweight double wall after Mr. Molen disappeared with our tent and our $ for 2 1/2 months. No kidding. Details to be posted shortly.

EJ:

Sorry about your BS runaround. But you did see the numerous warnings, right? Actually, I know of one person who ordered last year and got his tent fairly quick. I was going to wait for another 2 or 3 positives before I start recommending BS tents again. But now, looks like I have to reset the clock on BS…

For two people sharing… these come to mind:

Cold temps and winds – double wall with solid inner:

Hilleberg Allak (I prefer 2 doors/vestibules if sharing)

General three season – double wall with mesh inner:

REI Half Dome (for space and dual doors/vestibules)
Big Agnes Fly Creek 2 (cramped but lighter choice)

Temperate/low to moderate humidity – single wall:

Six Moon Designs Lunar Duo

I want a Double wall, mesh inner.

Now, to find one with a "propper" vestibule, needs to cover the door completly, have enought room to cook in, and you should be able to sit in the vestable, with all doors closed.

It would be great if it was less an a pound as well…

Benjamin what do you think of the Big Agnes Copper Spur 2 and 3? Would have mentioned the Big Agnes Seedhouse 3 but it only has one door. Ray E. really liked his Copper Spur 3.

And have you seen some of the new double walls with mesh interior, such as the Nemo Meta 2P?

I picked up the Allak last year after getting suggestions at BPL. It's a fantastic winter/high winds tent. Bomb proof, quiet and very comfortable and warm for a couple. And you can easily vent it enough for warm weather as well.

Ben, I believe those characteristics in an under 1 lb tent will be available one day, but we're talking advanced nanomaterials…

"Ben, I believe those characteristics in an under 1 lb tent will be available one day, but we're talking advanced nanomaterials…"

Looking forward to it… But for now, how about under 4.5lbs…