WARM + Durable Down Puffy Parka?

Christopher,

The FF Frontpoint costs $385 and weighs 30 oz.

The best value option for a very durable parka is the Cabela’s Alaskan Goose Down Parka. The retail cost is $199.95 and the weight is (gasp) 42oz. It tests 4F warmer than your Frontpoint.

The next best option for durability is the Eddie Bauer Peak XV Down Jacket (parka). The shell is not as rugged as the Cabela's option but at 22 denier, it is more durable than the typical 15 or lower denier typically used by UL backpackers. The retail price is $269 and the weight is 34.7 oz. It tests 1F less warm than your Frontpoint.

Richard, how do you test warmth in a parka?

Is this some theoretical test based on loft, or is it a cold room test, or just a guess?

I have a very warm parka, and I would like to get a warmth number on it.

–B.G.–

The Eddie Bauer Peak down parka is incredibly warm and on
sale for around $200 in store. I have been happy with mine. It can get a little warm when doing strenous activities and when the hood is up, it's like wearing a sleeping bag around your head :)

Jeff

Its worth noting, the PEAK XV is on sale right now for 188.30 online, and code Jantra2 knocks off another 20%. At ~ $150, this is a hell of a bargain for a jacket this warm. Its heavier than a lot of jackets, but its also meant for rest stops on BIG mountains. I've read extensive reviews on it, and needless to say, I have one coming to my doorstep.

Bob,

There is no Domestic or International standard that recognizes loft as an accurate measurement of thermal resistance (warmth). Only a traceable national lab calibration in combination with a guarded hot plate, a thermal flow meter, or a calibrated manikin are recognized.

A thermal manikin is the most accurate method but only size M garments can be measured using this approach. Average lab costs run about $600 per garment. My chart, referenced below, only included a small subset of garments that I have tested.

I used a traceable national lab calibration guarded hot plate for the results I posted here A New Paradigm for Understanding Garment Warmth

I don't think that we know what a guarded heat plate is.
–B.G.–

The simplest explantion is incorporated in Roger Caffin's review of the Neoair.

How much warmer than a fugu which is on the top of Richard Nisley's chart?

Weiyi,

The NB Fugu weighs 13.3 oz and tests 2 MET thermo-neutral at -19F. The EB Peak XV weighs 34.7 ounces and tests 2 MET thermo-neutral at -33F.

That Eddie Bauer parka is available in Tall sizes, which is a major consideration for some of us. Nice looking jacket.

Richard,

I hate to ask you to do more calculations, because you provide so much data as it is, but my scientific mind leaves a lot to be desired.

But would a Montbell Down Inner Parka layered under a properly sized NB Fugu approach the warmth of th EB XV Peak parka? By your numbers I have a clo of 6.18 for the Fugu and 1.78 for the down inner parka. Should I then be multiplying them by BSA% to fit them onto this chart?. And then add in the clo for the air gap?(which I could find in one of your posts, I just don’t have it at the moment.)

Your posts have saved me a great deal of discomfort and money, and I appreciate them greatly.

I’m trying to decide if the EB jacket is a great deal, or just duplicates garments I already own.

Edit: It would seem to good to be true if that were the case, as the EB jacket weighs 34.7oz and the two jacket combo would weigh ~23oz.

Thank you.

I am interested in the answer of Jim's question.

THEORECTICALLY, adding a MB Down Inner parka under a Fugu will extend the 2 MET thermo-neutral temperature rating from -19F to -35, best case. I strongly suspect that the NB Fugu’s IR technology benefit would be significantly diminished with the MB Down Inner absorbing the IR and that combo would test closer to -30F. Either way, the combo is almost equivalent in warmth to the EB Peak XV.

Thank you Richard. I wondered if the Radiant barrier would be less useful with a layer of down between it and my skin.

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the suggestions of these 2 fine choices. My friend really appreciates it.

I tried one on in the store. It has very serious loft, a good hood, and baffled construction. I think you would need a well sealed thick down balaclava along with the FUGU + MB Inner. That means three items instead of one.

I bought the FUGU though because as Mr. California Family Man I probably won't see a trip that needs that much warmth in one garment.

Would a Montbell Down Inner Parka fit under a Fugu? On me, the Fugu (medium) is a bit short in the arms, generous in torso, and tight in the arms. It definitely could accomodate a vest, but I wonder if the arms would work?

If you went a size up in the Fugu, would the sleeves be big enough then, but would the body perhaps be too big? Has anyone tried this?

Actually, to answer my own question somewhat, I just tried a Montbell hooded thermawrap (L, which is appropriate for me) under the (M) Fugu, and in a weird way it almost totally works. The sleeves are fine, though a little constricting when one is reaching forward (I've long arms), and the neck is tight, because the Fugu already fits just about perfectly in the neck. I imagine the Thermawrap has about the same thickness as the Inner Parka, and, hoodless, probably has a lower neck.

Actually, the Fugu by itself is a little tight when one is reaching forward. Perhaps a great combination could be made with a good vest and a Fugu–more heat retained in the torso, less in the arms, than with the MBIP, and maybe overall better. There's definitely room for a substantial vest, I think.

I bought the FUGU though because as Mr. California Family Man I probably won’t see a trip that needs that much warmth in one garment

This was my thinking as well. I think the Down Inner Parka + Fugu will cover the coldest trips I will be making. For trips where bringing the Fugu + Down Inner Parka would be overkill(meaning most of them), I can order a Santa Cruz Down Works UL Balaclava for another 2oz and pair it with the FUGU and my quilt.

Another BPL’er reported he wore the Alpine Light Parka + Ex Light jacket down below zero, which is encouraging, with the Fugu being significantly warmer than the Alpine Light.

I can wear my large MB Down Inner Parka comfortably under my large Fugu. In fact, I could wear the Alpine Light jacket the Fugu replaced under the Fugu with no problem. I could easily slip my Thermawrap vest on underneath either combo. For reference, I have a ~42" chest and I wear shirts with 33/34 sleeves.

You may want to look at the Valandre' Kiruna Jacket or the Sirius Parka by Valandre'. They are both very warm in adverse conditions.

If your friend is going to be standing around in really cold and windy conditions in zero degree weather all day long, he is definitely going to need some serious equipment to stay warm, but you already knew that.

I have used the Kiruna and presently own the Bering by Valandre. They all are baffled and use a very high quality down.

They are quite expensive, but they are quite durable and very well made.

DISCLAIMER: I am a retailer for Valandre' gear.

I have one of each I was lucky enough to purchase on eBay years ago, when they were made, I think, of Pertex Endurance. They're easily the best engineered low temperature jackets I've ever seen, and very durable. They're not particularly light (24.6 oz, 37.6 oz), and much more expensive than the other options discussed, but if your friend ever wins the lottery, I don't think he could find a better jacket (the Sirius is particularly great. It has a 4.4 oz detachable hood which works well with a quilt.)