Ursack Update

They should have a little parenthetical note: "Imagine that in place of the log you are using a rock." :-D

SIBBG's disbanding can be directly attributed to the lawsuit filed by Tom Cohen of Ursack

Was the disbandment court ordered or just a maneuver to get around the lawsuit (a maneuver that would force Ursack to sue each agency separately).

HJ

I use an Ursack. The opening will never close completely no matter how hard you pull on the properly tied knot. It's still an opening. However, if the sack is properly tied to a tree the bear will most likely pull at the bag, trying to dislodge it from the tree. That pulling makes the knot pull tighter and tighter around the opening. If you just left the bag out on its own I could see how the bear could get a claw into the bag.

As far as canisters, I am not a fan of the Bear Vault. The lids on those things are not easy to open with cold hands. I've also seen one that just would not open no matter how hard 2 people tried to get it open. The threads were locked. Not a fun experience.

I used a Bearicade (plus Ursack "backup") on my JMT last summer. If I were not using a Bearicade I would use the Garcia due to its latching mechanism which is similar to the Bearicade.

I alternate among a Bearikade Weekender, Bear Vault 350 or Ursack depending on destination and how much capacity I need (the Bearikade really fills up a pack). I find the Bearikade pretty much fault free, other than the latches can get tight–I keep them greased and clean, which helps. The Bear Vault always opens for me provided I don't overtighten it (just close it past the point where latch tab engages) and the threads are clean and dry. I've not used one of the new double-tab 450s, so don't know whether they throw an extra challenge into the opening routine.

Cheers,

Rick

I have a Garcia, a BearVault, and a Bear Boxer. The latter is obviously intended for shorter trips, and it fits a pack easily. I don't hear of many backpackers using the Bear Boxer.

I saw one backpacker heading into the Yosemite backcountry, and he was loading his home-made canister into his pack just as a ranger drove up. It was made out of Tupperware and duct tape. The ranger just shook his head in disbelief. I'm sure that it would have slowed down a black bear for about one minute, and not much more.
–B.G.–

"As far as canisters, I am not a fan of the Bear Vault. The lids on those things are not easy to open with cold hands. I've also seen one that just would not open no matter how hard 2 people tried to get it open. The threads were locked. Not a fun experience."

As Rick said, keeping the threads clean and dry helps a great deal. I think user perceptions on this might also vary based on which model you have. The older, I think BV200 (?) had a pretty thin lid, less to grip; I literally used a length of high-friction cord to wrap round the lid to get traction before I got into the habit of keeping the threads clean.

But the newer model has a much wider lid to grab hold of. I, at least, didn't ever have a problem with that one (but I already had the clean-thread habit by then).

There are definitely some advantages to the BearVault approach — the ability to see what's inside certainly makes it easier to pack the can efficiently. And I think it's the most truly waterproof can, FWIW; I recall waking one morning to find I had left my Garcia out in the rain lid side up, with resulting water inside.

Yup, with a Garcia you have to remember to flip it upside down before you turn in.

The only stuck Bear Vault lid that I ever saw appeared to be a problem of thermal expansion and contraction. The lid got screwed on snugly when it was somewhat warm. Then it contracted. Early in the morning, when it was cold, it was a problem to open, and normal actions failed. Finally, the lid was warmed up slightly, and then the normal actions were successful.
Hey, once it has turned past the locking tab, don't tighten it anymore.
I would love to see a video clip of a bear trying to get into one of those.
–B.G.–

I was camped fairly near some other folks, and they filled their bear canister with food, then stuck that into a nylon bag, which they then hung with rope very high in a tree. I woke up in the middle of the night with the sounds of their antics. The sow black bear came into camp, sent the cub up the tree, and the cub got to the rope. The cub chewed the rope, which sent the nylon bag and canister hurtling to the ground, or more specifically, onto the granite. The canister cracked open like a Mexican pinata. The bears scored, big time.
If those people had just left the bare canister out flat on the ground, it would not have been a problem.
–B.G.–

i can't open mine much of the time. especially in the morning, this can be extremely frustrating and even depressing.

the last trip i took it on, i had to have someone else help me to open it. i'm not weak, but i just didn't have the hand strength required.

i think i'd rather wrastle a barr than wrastle the friggin lid on the barr-vault.

> The canister cracked open like a Mexican pinata.

I don't suppose you recall what brand of bear can it was?

Bear Boxer has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread. It is nice to have a small bear can — most of us do weekend trips most of the time.

Does anyone know of a reliable weekend (3 days) bear canister that is lighter than the Bear Boxer?

— Bob

A canister lighter than the Bare Boxer won't exist – it would be too flimsy. Unless – you call Wild Ideas and have them make you a canister that's half the capacity of the Scout, which weighs 1 lb 11 oz – in terms of volume to space the scout does weigh less – you still get a bigger canister, but the Boxer will carry 275 cu in of food, while the Scout will let you pack in 500 cu in.

The BB Contender weighs 1.6 pounds. For a bear can, that's really next to nothing…

Everyone keeps saying, don't turn it closed much past the tab… it'll open…

Right. I don't close the thing any further than just beyond the tabs. Good thing the Sierras are chock full of little flakes of granite to use to push the plastic with, or I'd have lost a lot of weight.

I've been contemplating selling it and moving to the Bearikade Weekender, and getting Ursacks for destinations other than Yosemite/JMT.

"I don't suppose you recall what brand of bear can it was?"

It wasn't mine, and it was years ago. I remember that it was a black one, so I would guess that it was a Garcia Generation 2. There weren't many Gen 1 cans around.

I suppose another way to avoid that situation is to completely clear your ground of any big rocks that could be a threat.
–B.G.–

If your bear canister lid is too tight…

You might examine it very closely to determine if there is only one spot that causes the tightness. Then, take a little Emery paper or sandpaper and smooth it down ever so slightly. Not enough to really weaken the plastic, but maybe just enough to make it workable.

When I first got my Bear Vault, I must have studied it for 30 minutes just trying to figure out the kinks.
–B.G.–

I did the JMT portion from Yosemite Valley to Red's Meadows two years ago. My friend had the BV500 and I had the Garcia. We camped at the junction of Cloud's Rest trail on our first night and we definately were visited by a bear. We also had this woman and her 15 year old son join us only to find that they were only carrying the small Bear Vault. Half of their food was hidden under a rock double bagged (as if that helps). The bear made a nice dinner from her food but never even knocked over our canisters.

> A canister lighter than the Bare Boxer won't exist – it
> would be too flimsy. Unless – you call Wild Ideas and have
> them make you a canister that's half the capacity of the Scout

Funny you should say that — just last night, as an academic exercise, I estimated the weight and cost of a cut-down Bearikade. It is not as big a win as you would think, because the weight of the aluminum ends is a constant (1 lb). You only save 1.5 oz per inch on the carbon fiber. Net-net is that the result holds a bit more than the Bear Boxer, is only an ounce or two lighter, but is a LOT more expensive.

That is assuming they would make a 5" or 6" one. They might not want to, because of fears that a bear could get jaw lock on the 5-6" dimension and either damage it or else carry it away.

— Bob

"We also had this woman and her 15 year old son join us only to find that they were only carrying the small Bear Vault. Half of their food was hidden under a rock double bagged (as if that helps). The bear made a nice dinner from her food but never even knocked over our canisters."

And this is why bears continue to be a problem… :^(

I believe that there is something magic about an 8-inch diameter. A black bear jaw just can't open that wide. That's why the minimum dimension tends to be around 8 inches.

It might be possible for a gigantic brown bear to open up 8 inches, but I don't think that I want to be camped in the same county with one that large.
–B.G.–

"I believe that there is something magic about an 8-inch diameter."

Bare Boxer is not that wide… it looks rather like a Garcia Jr. and may be 5-6 inches across the end, a little wider in the middle. But it is the same basic construction as a Garcia, thick plastic. A buddy hauled his around in an Osprey Talon, one of the smaller ones. It would fit in my solo Bear Vault with airspace around it.

It is seven inches in diameter.
–B.G.–

Bring the cat. I'm not aware of NP regs prohibiting kittehs on the trail.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=966_1264213759

Cheers,

Rick

I wonder with the rule changes in the JMT how the various agencies would react to use of the Palisade:
http://www.wilderness-solutions.com/palisade_est.htm

It's a fairly light bear bag that generates an electric pulse to keep bears from getting to the food.

Their web site currently says:
"The Palisade EST is not yet certified for use by SIBBG or IGBC. Palisade EST's were submitted for test review in April 2007. We are awaiting approval at this time."

The FAQ talks about their history of working with the authorities:
http://www.wilderness-solutions.com/faq.htm

Another approach is to get the iPhone "Scarebear" app that Stephen Colbert describes about a minute and thirty seconds into this video …
http://tinyurl.com/yen7put