Down Booties

[David Schill]

I'm looking to replace my worn out down booties. My current choices are between Weatern Mountaineering (WM) and Feathered Friends (FF). Anyone try the new WM Expedition booties yet? The extra hight sounds nice, but I like the removable liner on the FF booties is also nice.

[BlackHatGuy]

I'd certainly recommend the Feathered Friends. The removable liner is what sold me. I can use the liner with ID Hotsocks when it's not cold enough for the FF bootie, and with my Chugach booties when it's too cold for the FF bootie. A wonderful piece of gear that's found its way into my pack a lot lately.

[Brian Barnes]

+1 RE Doug's comments

[Joseph Morrison]

I have been needing a pair for quite some time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Mountaineering-Down-Booties-NVY-SM_W0QQitemZ380195275806QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item588567841e

I found these WM down booties on a ebay store. They have them for sale asking for a best offer. I am thinking about getting a pair for myself. How much do think is a resonable offer?

Joseph

[Jeff K]

Joseph,

On ebay you can search for "Completed Listings" once you login and I saw this one.

In short it looks like they took $50. The process is usually automatic. So once you make an offer it will normally tell you right away if it was accepted or not. You can then offer a dollar more and keep going if you want.

I have no idea if $50 is fair, but I can say that someone was willing to pay that and accept that price.

[David Schill]

New, they go for $85 to $90. If they are new then $50 is a good price.

[Colin Kelley]

+1 for the removable shell. It's a huge plus to be able to walk around camp, then remove the shell at your tent (or igloo!) door and sleep in your booties too.

[David Schill]

The I like the removable feature, but having postholed a few time when I got up to go to the bathroom, I find the added protection might be nice. Plus, they weigh about the same for the added protection…

[BlackHatGuy]

"but having postholed a few time when I got up to go to the bathroom, I find the added protection might be nice."

I actually use my MLD snow gaiters with the booties, so I get that extra protection anyway, and still have the luxury of the removable outers. FWIW.

[Wesley Witt]

I own the FF booties and love them. The best feature is the removable liners. I highly recommend them.

[Richard Lyon]

Consider Nunatak Chugach booties or the taller Kangri Mukluks, if your budget allows. Remarkable durability and great insulation. Often available at Nunatak's sale page.

[David Lutz]

There's a thread somewhere here for a guy selling 3 oz. MYOG down booties for $55.00.

[BlackHatGuy]

"There's a thread somewhere here for a guy selling 3 oz. MYOG down booties for $55.00"

Those are only good for sleeping. You wouldn't want to walk anywhere around camp in them.

[Laurence Beck]

Douglas,

You are referring to Ben Smith's MYOG post:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=27464&skip_to_post=229277#229277

[Andrew King]

Another vote for the FF down booties with the removable outer shell. It's probably the best winter gear investment I've made this past year. A versatile piece of gear, and the feet stay nice and toasty. The down inner socks have some kind of cordura layer on the bottom that allow you to take small middle of the night trips without too much concern, and frequently I will take only those along. The outer Epic shell is nice for slogging around in the snow.

[Pieter Kaufman]

Bringing this thread back up:

Are the FF's foam midsoles sufficiently thick and dense that these don't suffer from conductive heat loss through the ground? Even if walking around on hard pack snow in camp?

In any pair of booties I've ever had over many years, this has always been the biggest problem. The upper can be the warmest thing in the universe, but my feet still get cold through the soles. Part of the problem is that I have fairly low blood pressure (a nice problem to have, I know), but the downside is that my extremities get cold easily, even if my core temperature is fine.

Doug, if you're still reading this, I'm curious about putting the FF shell over the Nunatak booties; it seems like it would be redundant to me, but obviously you're seeing a benefit. How so?

[BlackHatGuy]

"Doug, if you're still reading this, I'm curious about putting the FF shell over the Nunatak booties; it seems like it would be redundant to me, but obviously you're seeing a benefit. How so?"

For exactly the reason you talk about earlier. It doubles up on the foam midsole, which has two benefits — better walking around (more solid feel) and less heat loss through.

I use the Chugach booties, though, only when it's real cold. The down booties that come with the shells are pretty warm, just not quite as warm, in my opinion, as the Chugach. And as I said earlier, when it's just 'cool,' I use ID HotSocks with the shells.

And I owned the Chugach booties before I ever bought the FF booties, so I didn't buy the whole thing with all the uses in mind. It just worked out that way!

[Pieter Kaufman]

Great. Thanks Doug, that's very helpful.

So do you think it's fair to say that a pair of the FF booties should keep the average person's feet warm in camp down to around freezing, or is the 32 degrees threshold below the limits of the FFs?

Freezing is very generally around the lower limit of what I encounter in the winter in our deserts. But it's cold enough that my feet get cold once I stop moving around. And despite the fact that I have a good sleep system that keeps my core very happy down to freezing, my feet will still be cold in the morning. If I can solve that problem without having to do the old plastic bag VBL trick, I'll be happy.

[Brian Lewis]

"And as I said earlier, when it's just 'cool,' I use ID HotSocks with the shells."

Serendipitously, I too own both Hotsocks and (now very recently) Feathered Friends down booties, so this comment threw me a little. My size large hot socks weigh 5 oz (I think that includes the little silnylon stuff sack). The FF booties (sans shells) weigh slightly *less*, just under 5 oz.

So do you switch to hot socks because they pack smaller maybe (?), or because you're less concerned about getting them wet, or maybe the FF booties are actually too warm in such conditions?

Seems to me that the FF shells would be very big, hot socks are more similar to wearing thick wool socks, I haven't tried it but would think that I'd be swimming in the loose shells — I guess tightening the two cord locks would make this work fine though.

[BlackHatGuy]

"I guess tightening the two cord locks would make this work fine though."

Exactly. You really need to tighten them down when wearing the hotsocks. I switch to the hotsocks because the FF inner down booties would be way too warm for the conditions I wear the hotsocks in. I don't find the hotsocks all that hot, really ;-), but they're useful for cool nighttime temps in the hammock.

[Ben Smith]

I just finished making my removable shell prototype for my down socks, has a dyneema x sole with a silnylon upper, and a removable 1/4" CCF insole. The shell comes in at 1.8oz (for both) in size large. The down socks in size large are 2.3oz, making the total system weigh 4.1oz. I don't know how much loft the FF booties have, or what they are rated to, but my socks have about 3 inches of total loft (both layers) and close to 4 inches when ordered with the optional 1/2oz of extra down.

If anyone is interested, check out my website: GooseFeet.

– Ben Smith

[Paul McLaughlin]

I don't have either brand, but my homemade units are the same concept as the FF – inner bootie, outer shell. Totally the way to go. keep the booties on in the tent, then slip the shells on for forays into the snow. The booties stay dry, and you can thus wear them in the bag if you like. I made my shells knee high in case I step into some deep stuff.

[Author]

Posts