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SUL Camp Hatchet


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  • #1560467
    Lawson Kline
    BPL Member

    @mountainfitter

    Hey Brad,

    Your right, its normal part of conversation. I wasn't looking for a yes or a no just some actual feedback from someone who's been there and done that or has similar feelings. I guess I was just getting frustrated.

    Cheers.

    #1560469
    Brad Rogers
    BPL Member

    @mocs123

    Locale: Southeast Tennessee

    "Would you carry a 4-8oz SUL packable backpacking/camp hatchet?"

    No. It just wouldn't be anything that I would find useful as I never build a fire, I rarely even use my knife.

    #1560646
    Joseph Morrison
    Spectator

    @sjdm4211

    Locale: Smokies

    Of course we have all thought of making everyhting lighter. This is a forum on backpackinglight.com BTW.

    Do you really have the equipment and know how to shape and heat treat Titanium? You can't just grind a block of titanium into something that resembles an axe head and be done. If you do know how to correctly shape an axe then I suggest you send it off to a proffesional to be heat treated

    Also be aware that titanium is brittle, much more than steel. It also has less strength to weight ratio compared to steel.

    Joseph

    #1560673
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I find the combination of 'hatchet' and UL' to be a little … silly. (A hatchet *needs* some weight to chop.)

    Cheers

    #1560806
    Matthew Perry
    BPL Member

    @bigfoot2

    Locale: Hammock-NOT Tarptent!

    Just got this for Christmas:

    http://www.gofastandlight.com/Survival-Hatchet/productinfo/TO-R-45/

    Haven't used it yet, but it is very well built, light and for under $10.00, i won't feel too bad if it breaks or gets scratched up.

    BF

    #2025235
    John RB
    BPL Member

    @biggyshorty

    I am reviving this OLD thread because I've been thinking about this hatchet vs knife situation. I want the GB mini hatchet because it seems so useful for "light" wood collection when bike camping. The next bigger size, the Wildlife hatchet, also seems beautiful.

    Even though they're small it still seems like they're better than a knife when, say, you come across a big log somewhere and you want to hack it to smaller fire-size pieces…

    On the other hand, I do believe in the "right tool for the job" – Do you all have newer thoughts on the topic?

    #2025249
    James DeGraaf
    BPL Member

    @jdegraaf

    Locale: Bay Area
    #2025344
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but a cursory internet search finds the Rockwell hardness of titanium 6AL-4V as 36 and that of 6061-T6 aluminum as 40. So for a lot less money, you could just make such a axe out of aluminum and it would be harder.

    While chopping through a log is easier with a very sharp axe, splitting wood doesn't require a sharp axe.

    I think the lowest weight / least effort combo would be a very light cross-cut saw (to buck short rounds) and a lightweight axe (to split those short rounds).

    If I carefully judge my crosscuts, I avoid the knots at the annual growth of branches and the splitting is MUCH easier.

    #2025353
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi David

    > Rockwell hardness of titanium 6AL-4V as 36
    That's in the annealed state. You very rarely buy 6Al4V sheet annealed. Mostly it is 3/4 hard or fully hard. I am quite sure 6061 aluminium can be EASILY scratched by commercial 6Al4V sheet! And I know which is harder when machining too!

    But the whole idea is pretty silly anyhow.

    Cheers

    #2025394
    NW Hiker
    Spectator

    @king2005ify

    I would!

    I use my small 1 lb, GB for knocking limbs off, splitting small rounds etc. and since it's light I baton most of the time anyway so I definitely would carry a UL axe.

    Cheers

    #2025400
    Buck Nelson
    BPL Member

    @colter

    Locale: Alaska

    For a fixed camp a small axe can be handy. For backpacking I never carry one so the lightest hatchet would be no hatchet. Another thing to consider on weight is the lighter the head of the hatchet the less useful they tend to be because of reduced inertia.

    I also think it's worth noting that hatchet-less fire-less backpacking/camping leaves a much lighter hand on the land. Hatchet marks can easily last for decades on stumps or branch stubs. Fire traces can last even longer, especially with escaped fires which become wildfires, which is all too common.

    Of course, thoughtful use of fire or hatchets can be useful and have little long-lasting impacts. They are simply tools I do without while backpacking.

    #2025494
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Roger, thanks for the info on hardness. Makes sense.

    I was pondering the whole axe question and while I'm with Buck – an axe just doesn't go backpacking with me, for those were so inclined:

    Saws are lighter and far more efficient to crosscut a branch, small (dead!) tree trunk, or log. So the purpose of the axe, in my mind, is to split those rounds into kindling, to get to dry wood inside a round, or to make small pieces for your wood-burning stove.

    You could avoid needing head weight and handle length if you bring a wedge instead of an axe. Whack the wedge with a rock or a 2-3" diameter stick to split the rounds into firewood.

    An old axe head makes a cheap wedge if you want to try the concept, although not UL.

    An old axe head, with the eye cut off and the reminder cut in two, could make two small cheap wedges. As could bar stock in any number of alloys. There are times you want two wedges – like when you get the first one stuck (usually because you tried to split something with a knot in it). Any chainsaw shop sells plastic wedges to hold open a cut (but be safer around a chainsaw blade). In a pinch, I've used those to free a splitting wedge. Cheap ($6?) and light.

    By cutting short rounds with a saw, you could not be asking so much of the axe and could use a wedge and (found) hammer to split it up.

    #2025508
    Dale Wambaugh
    BPL Member

    @dwambaugh

    Locale: Pacific Northwest

    I agree with Roger, the concept of a SUL hatchet is a misunderstanding of how chopping and splitting tools work. Most of the small hatchets we see are the great-grandchildren of ones used in kitchens for splitting stove or fireplace kindling. An example is the Vaughan ZS1/2 Supersportsman's Sub-Zero zxe. It is light and cheap and IMHO, virtually worthless due to the light weight and short handle. Unless you have dry straight-grained wood, you won't do much with it. Gransfors Bruks makes a number of small axes with better head design and good steel, but you still won't do much with it if trying to split real-world found firewood vs dry cordwood. Until you get some weight in the head and a handle long enough for a good two-handed grip, you won't get much real chopping or splitting done.

    If you want to split small stuff, I think the lightest option is something like the Mora 330. It was designed for farriers, but is much like a mini version of a splitting froe, a tool used for centuries to split shingles and other wood products. In this case you are hauling the blade and providing the heft with a stick found at your campsite– batoning.

    Mora 330 knife

    Personally, I would just rely on something like the Mora Robust or Bushcraft paired with a light folding saw and be done with it.

    #2025513
    Art …
    BPL Member

    @asandh

    isn't the term " SUL Camp Hatchet " an oxymoron ?

    or do you leave your 8 oz down quilt at home,
    so you can keep your base weight under 5 lbs.

    #2025532
    John RB
    BPL Member

    @biggyshorty

    Mora 330 looks wonderful! In your opinion it'd be better for UL (and bike camping) than a GB mini? On the forums here some people have mentioned they use GB mini for bike camping.

    #2025672
    Derek M.
    BPL Member

    @dmusashe

    Locale: Southern California

    Lawson,
    It sounds like you are making an honest-to-goodness attempt at getting feedback from BPL forum members to see how much of a market there might be for a fairly lightweight hatchet.

    With that in mind, I'll give you my answer, which is that I would never consider carrying one in my pack.

    The reason for this is that in the 15 years I've spent cooking in the backcountry using open cook fires 95% of the time, I've never once felt the need to have a hatchet.

    I have actually always been perplexed by the notion of needing a hatchet to process wood to make a fire in the backcountry.

    I find four things:
    1) The wood that I want to make a cook fire with needs to be very dead and dry.
    2) Wood that is dead and dry can be broken using either your body as leverage, or rocks and trees to do the same.
    3) Wood that can't be broken easily is either too green to burn efficiently, or too big to be practical for a campfire
    4) So in following, the only wood that you actually want to burn in a camp/cook fire, is wood that is easily broken without any special tools.

    And hence, I have never felt the need to have a hatchet. I wouldn't even bring a hatchet in the wilderness with me if it weighed nothing, since it adds no value for me and would simply take up space in my pack. Of course, others might disagree, but you were looking for personal perspectives, so now you have mine.

    I have never camped much in snow, and I don't know if a hatchet is more useful in the winter time. Maybe, maybe not.

    Hope that was helpful.

    #2025690
    Delmar O’Donnell
    Member

    @bolster

    Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio

    Isn't a tomahawk, a lightweight hatchet?

    This one weighs just over a pound:

    http://www.cutleryshoppe.com/sogspecialtyfasthawkf06t-n-lightweightfastandagiletomahawk.aspx

    This one right at a pound:

    http://www.americantomahawk.com/products/vtac.htm

    Here's a collection of zombie killers, for sure:

    http://www.brownsafe.com/blog/top-10-tactical-tomahawks/

    OK, those are silly.

    To answer the question…would I carry an 8 oz hatchet? I think I'd like to at least try it once. It's hard to imagine something that lightweight acting as an impact tool, and titanium is notorious for poor edge-holding (it's too soft). So I'm dubious, but…yes, I'd give it a shot.

    I think a steel edge (embedded in an aluminum head) would be the way forward with this idea. You'd really want the edge to be steel, if at all possible. Ti and aluminum would surely dent and deform a lot.

    #2025705
    Ozzy McKinney
    Spectator

    @porcupinephobia

    Locale: PNW

    I always thought a super lightweight head could be hollow, so you could fill it with sand/water at your campsite to add the weight you need for chopping/splitting. Maybe this has already been done, or maybe it's just dumb. But it would be a way to get the best of both worlds.

    For reference, I don't even carry a knife backpacking, so I'm not the best one to ask.

    #2025710
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    Hatchets are mostly useful in the winter. You can knock down a small tree and split it up to get the dry wood. You need a good coal base of dry wood before you can start drying out wet wood. Good for wet/frozen conditions. It's more useful if you use a fire for warmth rather than just as a cooking tool.
    A small folding saw and fixed blade knife can do the same thing.

    And hatchets can be useful in a bushcrafty way. There is an old documentary about native Alaskans heading into the bush and surviving with only an axe. It was fascinating to watch.
    The GB mini axe is kind of a do it all tool. Split some kindling, carve/pound a few stakes, cut some shelter poles, cut some sticks to make a grill, carve a spoon, fillet a fish…

    #2025711
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    ,

    #2025721
    Steven McAllister
    BPL Member

    @brooklynkayak

    Locale: Arizona, US

    Like Dave and others, I find a small machete more useful than a small hatchet.

    In the old days, I never carried a stove or fuel and only relied on found wood and so a hatchet made sense.
    I later discovered a small cheap machete chopped wood just as well, was a little lighter and had other uses that a hatchet couldn't do very well.

    If you find that the chopping area on a machete is getting dull you can move to another area on the blade. You have to sharpen a hatchet more often for this reason.

    My vote would be a UL machete.

    #2025727
    Mark Ries
    Spectator

    @mtmnmark

    Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

    I would not bring one and I do build fires. As stated dried wood of the right size is easy to break. Even in high use areas fire wood is pretty easy to find just walk a little farther.

    #2025814
    Larry De La Briandais
    BPL Member

    @hitech

    Locale: SF Bay Area

    I like to have a hatchet when camping, including when I camp after backpacking in. When hiking using a backpack I don't want one. I just won't be spending enough time in camp to make it worth the effort. And even when camping with a backpack I use a saw (sawvivor: https://www.google.com/#q=sawvivor) instead of a hatchet. I have used a hatchet before, but it is most useful to split wood to make kindling, or to get to dry wood. Since I am typically going in the Sierras during summer dry wood is not an issue, and kindling is abundant.

    When I take the RV I always have a hatchet. But then the RV carries it, not me. ;^)

    #2025909
    Javan Dempsey
    Member

    @jdempsey

    Locale: The-Stateless-Society

    Josh Leavitt (Ruta Locura) and I made some a couple years back. He waterjetted up some blanks from 1/8" or so 6Al4V, and I carbidized the edges..

    Think I still have one laying around somewhere. In short, they were useless. It makes sense, an axe of any variety, needs head weight and momentum. Even hatchets have fairly blunt edge geometry.

    Could you make a fairly useful one out of steel with a 16oz or so head and a hollow carbon fiber handle? Yes, but a small machete or khukri of the same weight, would outperform in the same tasks, and be more versatile.

    I've felled decent sized trees (trees, not saplings), with my small 17oz khurki, and my small 10" blade (1/8" spine) machete, and they'll baton rounds bigger than you'll ever need. They cut deep in a chop, but have enough strength to spit chips through torsional engagement in the cut.

    Traditionally a machete is not a "chopper", they were made primarily to deal with jungle vegetation, and agricultural tasks, and usually were very thin to that task, but with modern steels, and slightly thicker cross-sectional geometry, they might make the most versatile, large blade. A khukri on the other hand, is one of the most efficient choppers of all time. Better, I think than any type of axe of equivalent weight, until you get into the sizes where the momentum of a larger axe head becomes king.

    #2025924
    Justin Baker
    BPL Member

    @justin_baker

    Locale: Santa Rosa, CA

    "Isn't a tomahawk, a lightweight hatchet?"

    No. A tomahawks generally have certain identifiable features that differ them from hatchets and axes.
    Tomahawks have round eyes and a friction fit handle.
    An axe or hatchet has a narrow eye. With axes/hatchets the wood tapers down to fit into the eye. The thickness of wood at the eye is much smaller than the rest of the handle. The handle is secured by inserting a wooden wedge.

    A tomahawk handle is thicker at top so it can friction fit (it's physically impossible for the head to slide off the top). This means that you can easily remove the head from a tomahawk handle. It's real easy to make a new handle in the bush.

    Tomahawks – light head and long handle.
    Hatchets – shorter handle and heavier head.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 57 total)
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