tent stakes for frozen ground

I carry a titanium nail stake in the winter that I can use to create a 'starter' hole if necessary.

Any other suggestions? I'm in exactly the same situation, though I'd never try hammering AL hook stakes – can't believe you didn't bend them. My little "wire" stakes wouldn't work either. Then opened up the package of AL Y stakes and could pound it in maybe 2 inches. No snow and temps will fall even further the next few days. Here at home I could use a real hammer to pound the Ys in farther. What would you do in the field in these conditions??? How would you get them back out (unless you were using and rocks, logs, etc to tie onto perhaps)?

Al hook stakes – about 1/4" diameter? Yeah, they could take some effort if the ground is frozen wet stuff.

Options:
Ti wire stakes – they go in very well, and hold. They can be hammered (rock).
Ti sheet angle stakes – they slice into stuff in and unbelievable manner. Can be hammered. May have to MYOG – see
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes.html
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2.html

Extraction:
Wires – twist and then pull. Using a spare stake as a handle helps, or a small loop of solid cord.
Angles: Thump inwards with heel then pull out. Strong cord loop helps.
Thing is, ice does not adhere to Ti very well, but it does adhere to aluminium! So break what bond there is and it gets fairly easy.

Cheers

has anyone tried maybe heating up the tip of their stake at all for a little bit before quickly jamming it into the ground or would that degrade the hardness of the stake?

Heating a Ti stake will have zero effect on its long-term hardness.
But it will also have zero effect on the frozen ground. Not enough thermal mass in a stake.

Cheers

In 5*F temps recently, I had good success with aluminum V-stakes that came with a Trango2. Snow/ice and incredibly frozen ground, but using a rock, I was able to get stakes 4-6" into the earth. Tricky to get them back out the next day, because ice had bonded to the metal and made them very hard to remove, but the tent never shuddered once in a night full of 50+mph winds.

My general go to in uncertain frozen/rocky ground are the MSR Groundhogs, based on tons of reviews. IMHO, for peace of mind, it's worth the minimal extra weight to know for sure that my stakes won't break and can take whatever abuse I dish out to get them into the ground. The short loops of line on each stake also make them much easier to remove than many other stakes.

If you're hyper-sensitive over pack weight, I'd recommend a mix of stakes. Pack a couple of indestructible stakes like the Groudhogs to start holes in the ground and/or use as anchors, and then bring smaller/lighter stakes for the rest.

I haven't tried the Ti needle stakes, but I would like to — I have high expectations for their worth in frozen ground, but I'm uncertain how they would fare in the Sheandoah's (VA) where I do most of my hiking. A lot of the ground is incredibly rocky, and I don't know how they would hold up to that extra level of abuse.

Just got back from a trip on the AT during this snow storm we just had, and the ground was pretty much frozen everywhere.

I used the easton al stakes that came with my rainshadow 2, and they worked great, the thing to remember is, there's no need what so ever to drive these things all the way. If you do, you'll never get them out of frozen ground if the temps dont rise enough to thaw it later..

I drove them in about 1-2" depending on the ground hardness, with a rock, and a back sloping angle so I could get my guy lines lower if I wanted.. Even still I had to wiggle the hell out of them to get them loose, but they worked flawlessly.

Over Thanksgiving, I was doing an overnighter in maybe 28*F temps. The ground was frozen. I made the mistake of pounding my Easton Shorties a good 4" into the icy dirt. The next morning they were bonded to the soil. I whapped them, cursed them, pulled desperately on them, and I finally popped the heads off 3 out of 6. I'll have to go back to that site next summer and retrieve the stakes. I won't use Eastons again in the winter. By the way, do you think Gorilla Glue would secure the heads onto the stakes again, sort of (for summer use only!)?

i had the same problem with an msr groundhog that bonded to the ground. it was just an overnight so i took the libert of pouring boiling water onto the stake and it warmed up just enough to easily come out of the ground.

i know this isn't practical for long distance backpacking but there's gotta be a better way to free frozen tent stakes without making my hands bleed…

I have broken the heads off of Golite's Y stakes (Very similar to MSR Groundhogs) trying to get them out of frozen ground. I have been using Ti shepherd hooks lately but have not encountered any frozen ground. Going by what Roger said about Ti vs. Aluminum, Ti nail stakes might be the best in frozen ground.

I know the op's question asked about tent stakes, but what about using rocks and logs as a deadman instead?

Matti

The problem here is that ice bonds VERY well to aluminium. So using aluminium stakes is asking for this problem.

I use Ti stakes: ice does not bond to that metal very well.

To break the bond I suggest you thump the stake downwards (into the ground) with your heel. You only have to move it 1 mm for the bond to break, then you can (quickly) extract it.

Also, my tent peg bag has a very heavy drawcord on it. I use this loop of cord to pull on the stakes to extract them, rather than beating up my hands.

Cheers

Depending on the terrain, I rarely use stakes in frozen ground but instead rely on trees, stumps, roots, rocks, burried deadmans from sticks and such and any other number of alternative. Good to think outside the box.

In powder I use homemade "parachutes" made of silnylon and bury them a foot or two down and tamp with snowshoes / shovel.

does anyone else have any other tips or tricks like the ones mentioned above for this upcoming winter packin season?

Lawson, aka Mountainfitter, was talking about making stakes like the Easton, except they would be one piece stakes. I think those would be best for pounding into anything really hard and still being able to pull them out.

they would be heavy..but you can use 20d nails with a small hammer..

I once carried one of every type of stake I own into the foothills to see which one would work best in very frozen ground. The only one I could get to penetrate was the beefy Vargo ti nail stake. A big rock was needed to pound it in. So now I carry a full complement when I know I'll be camping on frozen ground. To save a little weight, you could, as Douglas suggests, use just one nail stake to drill pilot holes for less robust stakes, but I find it a lot easier in cold conditions, when your fingertips may be frozen and you just want to get it done, to use all nail stakes.