Help me with a new sleep system

I would add the balaclava as well as a sleeping bag liner. The liner is supposed to add about 5 degrees and can be added as needed.

Start by getting a warmer sleeping pad. The pad accounts for ~35% of your insulation; at 20*F, IIRC, you need an R-value of ~5 for comfort. Guessing your blue/ridge combo is around 3.5.

The WM Ultralite is out based on price restriction. I'd consider combining your 90 quilt w/the Caribou. Weight-wise it'll take you heavier than something like the Ultralite, but at no cost and with good versatility.

If you tend to sleep cold, I believe that you'll be best served by a sleeping bag with an integrated hood, and preferably a good draft collar, for those lower temps. I know some people here do use quilts for colder temps, but think you'll find yourself warmer in a bag.

Cheers-

Greg: What liner would you suggest? I have looked at the sea to summit ones. The cotton or silk ones seem like they would offer little insulating value, and the reactor weighs in at 9oz. Certainly an economical solution though.

Brad: I found a pretty good deal on an Ultralite localy that I can afford, but was unsure if the added weight was worth it over some of the quilt options out there.
I have tried the caribou, bpl 90 combo with some success. It is really warm and comfy, but takes up about half of my GG miniposa, leaving me room for only about 2 days of food with my other gear, and it is packed super full. I would like to have something that I can use while out for a bit more time.
Thought about getting a GG thinlight to use under my blue foam? I saw the recent thread about pad combos and R value. I need to go back and see if I can't find something to replace my current setup. Any suggestions off hand?

There's a GREAT chart on here somewhere by Richard Nisley showing temp ratings for various combinations of quilt (GoLite Ultra 20), pad and clothing. I think I oinked the chart lower in this post.

You would have to take into consideration that you have a different bag/quilt, but I think you'll find it very informative. I found the temps dead-on accurate for me.

With my limited experience, I would recommend trying a CCF pad, an inflatable pad and adding some clothing.

Once you add in an insulated balaclava, liner, etc… you're not going to have a weight advantage w/a quilt as described. Hard to beat 26 ounces for a true 20*F sleep system like the Ultralite. If you can get a good deal on one, jump on it.

As for mats, I can't say that stacking 3 foam pads sounds ideal. Many people here like the Exped Downmat 7… the short weighs 23.5 ounces, R-value of 5.9. One of our members has also started making down-filled air mats, even lighter… anyone used them yet? Look good…

Totally agree with Brad. Before you spend big $$ on a new bag, upgrade the mat first. It may be all you need.

Great responses. Thanks guys. Great chart David. I had considered the ultra 20 but have read that it's rating is quite optimistic and feal like the caribou probably comes pretty close.
I may snag this ultralite just for the deal, but I am def going to check out some new pads. I have seen the myog down mat here on the forums. Looks pretty interesting. I have also considered a neo air on top of a thinlite. I've read that combo is comfy with snow on the ground and likely way more cushy than my double ccf pad.

NeoAir/thinlight, while more comfy, nets you no insulation gain… 2.5 for the Neo, a bit less than 1 for the thin…

As others have observed… a single blue pad doesn't provide enough insulation. You should have noticed a sense of heat lose under you. My guess is you needed 2x the pad under you at 20F. Picking up a insulated air mattress would be a compact way to add a fair bit of warmth (not to mention sleeping comfort). But that won't get the caribou down to 20F. You would need more warmth on top. A warmth hat (like a down baklava) and more clothing could close the gap.

If you are regularly going to be seeing 20F temps, have a good deal on the wm ultralight, and can afford the money, I would go for it. There are very few other options that will compare from a warmth / weight perspective… and you will certainly be warm enough using the ultralight.

Other than the issue of volume, combining the bpl 90 quilt with your bag would also be an effective options.

Stephen,
I use the S2S thermolite reactor. In combination with a Ridgerest, Prolite 3, Golite UL-20 and a balaclava I have handled temps down to 10 degrees.

Don't count the Ultra 20 out too quickly. Accordingly to the BPL statement on temperature ratings, you need an estimated 2.2" of single layer loft to have a 20F rating. As you can see in the picture below, my Ultra 20 has 2.8" of loft (which is approaching a 10F rating on BPL's chart). It's up to you how you want to interpret that for real world conditions, but I don't think it's fair to say that the Ultra 20's rating is excessively optimistic.

SunnySports.com has the short version of the Ultra 20 on sale for $135 which is an amazing deal. I'm not sure if you'll fit into the small, but it's worth considering.

Hey Dan – isn't that loft measurement for the top and bottom? Meaning 5" of loft for a 20 degree rating. I may be wrong, however.

BPL's position statement just deals with the single layer loft needed on top of you, so they ignore the down beneath you.

Accordingly, BPL's position statement treats a 2.2" lofting quilt and a 4.4" lofting sleeping bag as being equal although in reality there is a tiny benefit still reaped from having that compressed down under you. Quilts also are more vulnerable to drafts etc but BPL's statement doesn't go into this.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/bpl_sleeping_bag_position_statement.html

So after digesting all this info (thanks) I'm thinking that I will try An insulated torso pad (bpl torsolite w/ r 3-4) combined with a ridgrest (r 2.6)or a foam pad of equal r value for a total r value of 5.6-6.6. This also leaves me with more options for all seasons.
Is it just me or is a value of R 1 a lot to have as a variable spec for a pad?
For the top I could go the cheap route with a reactor liner combined with my current clothing and caribou, and if I want to spend the dough pick up the ultralite.
If I do get the ultralite I will sell the caribou to the offset the cost.

More food for thought:

The STS Reactor liner weighs ~9 ounces. It is very thin "thermal" material, basically just a sack made of lightweight long underwear material. You can achieve the same warmth just by wearing more clothing.

By comparison, the WM Hotsac VBL weighs ~4.5 ounces and combines radiant heat barrier w/VBL. Truly adds a solid 15*F of warmth to a sleep system, IME.

The Ultralite weighs 1# 13oz, whereas your Caribou weighs 1# 4oz… so for those times you're not pushing your temp limits, you'd be carrying an extra 9 ounces year 'round if you sell the Caribou. Honestly, I think you'd be best served by having both bags. The draft collar of the UL is a great addition when the temps go down.

Experiences vary significantly, but if you're having some troubles staying warm, I personally don't think torso-length only insulation is the way to go. Your whole body loses heat, not just your torso… and although your torso accounts for the largest bit of BSA, your legs will definitely dump some heat. Just sayin'…

"Is it just me or is a value of R 1 a lot to have as a variable spec for a pad?"

Yes, I would expect it to be closer to 3.0 or less. The 1" thick Thermarest Prolite is rated at R 2.2.

You are headed towards my sleep system. A Prolite XS (8 oz.) on top of either a 36" (6 oz.) or full length Ridgerest (12 oz.) depending on how cold and frozen with a WM Ultralite Lg (28 oz.) in a MLD superlight bivy. Nice and warm in the 20's and I have carried it down to the single digits many times and been toasty.