Need Jacket Advice

In a nutshell, if you want maximum breathability for your rainproof jacket — forget any and all versions of GoreTex (mostly marketing hype) — and look for a jacket with eVENT technology. Intergral Designs is a good place to start.

A close second in breathability are the various MontBell jackets that use the company's proprietary "Breeze Dry Tec" technology. Not quite as breathable as eVENT — but close — and certainly much more breathable than Goretex garments.

An option other then the ID eVent shells is the Wildthings Superlite Alpinist Jacket. This is slightly heavier then the ID options but would work well as a one jacket does all type shell. High quality, reasonable price and weight, made in the USA and uses eVent for great all around protection.

While not an event jacket, I really like the Patagonia Rainshadow. I wear mine for rain and windy weather, as well as layering when it's too cool for a longsleeve shirt. On a recent outing I had it layered w/ a basic 200 wt fleece vest, windshirt, and shortsleeve running tech shirt down in the upper 20's. I was completely comfortable. The rainshadow has the armpit zippers that really open the jacket up for ventilation and a nice hood that can be cinched down for bombproof protection or adjusted for maximum peripheral visibility when climbing, etc.

I have looked at different types of eVENT jackets and the Rainshadow. One question about eVENT: If I'm wearing it over other layers in colder temps, will I be sacrificing heat when I'm not active? At times I sleep in my jacket when its chilly.

I love the idea of maximum breatheability. I looked at Montane, Rab, Wildthings, Westcomb, ID and others. Anyone have experience with any of these brands other than ID?

Methinks you are asking two different questions.

1. eVENT shells are rainproof and pretty darn windproof as well. Still, when you are out there with the winds howling and you are using an eVENT jacket as your outer shell — you may feel a bit cooler than with Goretex jacket or similar derivatives. That's becuase the latter still incorporate a PU (polyurethane) laminate which serves as an additional barrier to block the wind even more fully (but also compromises breathability significantly).

2. When inside your sleeping bag — I haven't ever worn my rain jacket to sleep, but blowing winds obviously won't be a problem inside a sleeping bag. Here, the excellent breathability of eVENT plays to an advantage in letting more of your perspiration (sensible and insensible) pass through — thus keeping you more comfortable.

All waterproof/breathable membranes are made from polyurethane with two exceptions (GoreTex and eVent), so Patagonia's H2No, North Face Hyvent etc are ALL polyurethane (PU) membranes. All polyurethane (PU) membranes perform basically the same, but some are better than others depending on the thickness of the polyurethane and what other fabrics are used in conjunction with it.

PTFE is a better material for a membrane than PU because it breathes a lot better, but the downside has long been that body oils contaminate it and cause it to lose it's waterproofness. Original Gore-Tex was PTFE but they soon discovered this contamination shortcoming and switched to a PTFE membrane with a PU layer on it to protect it. Unfortunately the PU layer is the breathability bottleneck, so Gore-Tex's PTFE/PU membranes aren't significantly better than anyone else's PU membranes. Lower end Gore-Tex might be entirely PU.

The only exception to using PU is eVent which is PTFE. eVent has found a solution to prevent body oils from wrecking the membrane. So eVent really is in a class of it's own right now.

Be careful with putting too much weight into the breathability numbers that manufacturers report. Two coats that both claim 20,000 G/M2/24 hour may not be the same or even close. There are a ton of factors that affect the breathability (ie. humidity inside the jkt, ambient humidity, temperature, wind etc). All manufacturers generally report the highest breathablity number they can achieve, but that's using ideal conditions that are no where near normal real life. My understanding is that in more real life conditions (ie. not 0% humidity outside) PTFE works much better than PU. I don't think PU breathes very well at all compared to PTFE when it's humid outside etc (which is when you really need it to breathe).

The insulation value of an eVent shell isn't going to vary significantly from a PU shell. In either case, the membrane provides very little insulation and the breathability is still low enough that significant amounts of air aren't going to be flowing through your jacket. I wouldn't rely on any shell to provide a lot of warmth out there….they just block the wind and your under layers provide the insulation.

Your criteria for a shell is tough because winter shells generally use heavier and more durable fabrics then you'd need for a summer rain jacket. If you buy something really light (ie. Marmot Mica @ ~6oz) there's a good chance you'll end up shredding it if you go skiing with it and start crashing with skis and poles flying everywhere. If you can afford it, I would buy a lightweight 2.5 layer shell for the summer and a more durable and heavier 3 layer shell for the winter. For the summer I would buy a North Face Triumph Anorak if minimizing weight is the goal, or I would buy a light eVent jkt if breathablity is very important to you. You could probably get double duty out of the heavier eVent shell, but I wouldn't try this with the Triumph Anorak or Marmot Mica.

Dan:

Goretex also incorporate PU laminate or membrane. To my knowledge, the two makers that have managed to achieve 100% rainproofness without need for that extra layer of polyurethane laminate/membrane/coating are eVENT and MontBell.

Yeah I said that Goretex uses PU in the part where I explain about GoreTex….tell me more about Montbell though. Are they using just PTFE?

Hi Dan:

I have a MontBell Peak shell jacket which uses their proprietary wp/b — Breeze Dry Tec. Like the eVENT, it is directly air permeable — PTFE w/o PU laminate or coating — but rainproof.

I am very happy with my jacket. It is comfortable to hike in at temps up to 50 or 60. I've snowshoed uphill (not real steep but uphill nevertheless) for over an hour in about 38F and was completely dry at the end.

While eVENT is a bit more breathable, the MontBell comes with pit zips — giving much more venting options.

+1 on the Peak Shell, it's a great piece of gear. The pit zips alone are worth it. I hiked this past weekend in mid-20 degree weather, with pit zips open and an Icebreaker 260 underneath and stayed dry. It snowed the whole day, and we were going up a pretty steep, rocky hill, in 8-inch deep snow. It's my favorite shell jacket, bar none, for a range of temps (for me, on the cooler side).

I love the idea of maximum breatheability. I looked at Montane, Rab, Wildthings, Westcomb, ID and others. Anyone have experience with any of these brands other than ID?

I have had an eVent “soft shell” by VAUDE in the past and I still have a Montane Quickfire jacket.

I love the Quickfire even though it’s too wide for me.

I am wearing it in these two videos: Zischgeles and Große Arnspitze.

I think Montane used to have rather boxy cuts, maybe not as extreme as Mountain Hardwear. They might have improved since then. Rab seems to be better suited for thin people like me.

The other posters have already said enough about the performance of eVent. I haven’t experimented with Gore Tex or Marmot Mica’s fabric but eVent is awesome :-)

I'm definitely going to go with eVent. I've narrowed it down to 4.

Westcomb Specter LT 11oz 300NR eVent
Rab Latok Alpine 16oz 3L eVent
Montane Halo Stretch 12oz
Wildthings Superlite Alpinist 16oz 3L eVent

Does anyone know if 300NR eVent is the same as 3L (3 layer?) eVent?

In general, the hoods on UK designed jackets will be better for more extreme conditions. The hoods are usually wired, and cinch in well around the face for protection. US hoods usually assume the wearer will be using a baseball type cap.
If you can wait, Rab will be releasing their 10 ounce, 3 layer eVent Demand Pull-on early next year.
The Rab Latok is an excellent jacket, but i sold mine and bought a Crux Flak Smock, as i prefer smocks/pull-ons. Crux don't make it anymore, but they are another option for eVent rainwear. They are harder to find though, as they are a smaller, climbing orientated outfit.

Wow you guys seem to know a lot on the subject so here is a question I keep wrestling with.

Windproof v.s Breathable
yes I want breathability, but I want windproofness even more (I can always open up the jacket or use pit zips etc).
Should I choose a jacket with a PU coating over Event?
if so which fabric is best for windproof — and yet still somewhat breathable.

I'm looking for a UL 3 season jacket / anorak, not a heavey winter jacket.

I find my ID eVent jacket to be completely windproof. It's thin and can feel cold against the skin, but I would say it's windproof. As far as opening zips, etc to increase breathability that never worked for me very well. With eVent I can actually dry base layers while hiking at a moderate pace.

Art:

All the above-mentioned rain shells are windproof. You don't need to worry about winds blowing in at all. However, when it's really cold, you can feel the 'coldness' a bit more with a jacket that's directly permeable — like eVENT or Montbell.

If you value heat retention more — then yes, jackets with a layer of PU laminate or membrane or coating will block out the cold a bit more.

The Rab Latok Alpine seemed to be the best fit for all my needs. Thanks so much for the advice and insight. Now I just can't wait for it to get here. I've been bragging about eVent to all my Gore-tex owning buddies.

Congratulations.

If you can do me a favour, I might eventually buy a Rab jacket next year and I'd love to know how wide they are around the chest and the waist.

I don't know what size you've ordered but it would be great if you could measure the jacket and let me know.

Thanks.

I ordered a medium. I'll try to measure it when it comes in.

Nathan, I have some Wild Things Alpinist eVENT bibs and two eVENT jackets from Westcomb (Mirage and Vapor FX). All are outstanding for breathability and waterproofness. The Vapor has a newer eVent technology called 560NST eVent. I recommend either brand with enthusiasm.

Can anyone comment on eVent durability for bushwhacking? Does the fabric hold up pretty well? I'm specifically looking at the Montane Halo.

Chris

Edit: Also, if I decide to go the polyurethane route, can anyone recommend a sub 1lb shell that is under $200 but more substantial than my Marmot Mica?

I've owned and worn a number of shell jackets, including ,but not limited to, Goretex(original),Hyvent, H2NO(Patagonia)and all have been windproof as well as waterproof. On the other hand they have also been somewhat heavy and relied on pit/chest zits to reduce condensation.
I now own and use exclusively an eVent pullover. I was sceptical regarding its claimed breathability, but after many hikes under cold and humid conditions, as well as full-on rain ,I have yet to get this garment to accumulate any condensation on the inside. No pit zips (no need for them)thus reducing weight. Like a previous poster said ,check out Integral Designs. 3-layer eVent can't be beat (currently).

Event is like other 3 layer fabrics, in that the durability will depend on what outer fabric is used. I use a Crux Flak Smock for heavy-duty use. Crux products are aimed at the mountaineering end of the spectrum, so are designed to get up close and personal with the rock.
In my opinion, if you want durability, look at what the jacket is designed for, and be prepared to sacrifice a little weight.