My first camera?

> I try to shove it in the pocket of my pack belt but the settings get
> changed and the lens cap falls off.

I would agree that you have to be a bit careful with the LX3 if you are inserting it into a pack pocket. It is not the most durable camera. That said, I used it on nearly all my trips for a year and it lived in my daypack or messager bag for a year without a case and was still in good shape.

I didn't have a problem with the lens cap… but that's because I gripped the camera from the front (the lens cap against my palm on the way into the pocket so it wouldn't get knocked off. You can also DIY the auto open Ricoh lens cap which stays on pretty well. The setting knobs can get knocks. I didn't have a problem with the main selector, but sometimes the switch for view/use would get thrown.

This fall I switched to carrying my camera attached to my shoulder strap. which makes it accessible, less likely to get bumped, and gets a bit of counter balance to my pack. The most protective solution was a velcro attached padded camera case, the lightest was threading the thin camera shoulder strap from a loop on the shoulder strap. I found that if I did it right the camera would ride tight against the pack strap because the adjustment bucket would catch of the strap it was running under, but a careful pull would unbind the strap and it would give me enough slack I could easily use the camera while the shoulder strap was still threaded through my shoulder strap

–Mark

I'm at the same place as you, trying to decide between the LX3 and S90. You might want to also consider the Ricoh CX1 or CX2 from some of the sample images they look like great cameras and they're both only about 7 oz.

I've had an s90 for about a week now, and I'm very pleased with it. However, if I bought an LX-3 I'm sure I'd say the same thing.

Theoretically, the LX-3 has an advantage in image quality because it has a slightly larger sensor, but the difference is quite small. The LX-3 does have a flash hot shoe (the s90 doesn't), but I think using an external flash on such a small camera defeats the purpose.

Because I don't shoot movies, the decision came down in favor of the greater zoom range of the s90 vs. the 24mm equivalent wide end of the LX-3.

One note about both of these cameras is that they are in something of a niche market because they cost nearly as much as several budget DSLRs that have far greater capabilities, and yet their image quality in ISO 100 jpegs really aren't that much better than cameras costing several hundred dollars less. Thus, I suspect that, like me, owners of either camera have others in the stable.

But if you need the best image quality (especially in high ISO settings) available from a pants pocket size camera, the s90 is the camera you want.

I realized I never answered Sid's original question in my diatribe. For beginners looking for an all around lightweight p&s capable of carrying in a pocket and making high quality imagery for printing to 8X10 or web use, I often recommend the latest wide angle Canon SD camera which I think is currently the Canon SD940.
My current pocket cam is an S90 but that is because I often shoot on the edge of low light and need as fast (wide aperture) lens as possible and the best high ISO performance. However, I would be happy using the SD940 (and it recent predecessors) for 90% of my hiking/backpacking usage and it's only about 4oz.

Do you want a viewfinder? Are you willing to screw around with a lens cap? Do you really want to sacrifice video? Do you want a camera that you can hand to someone else and get a decent photo of yourself? I find the LX3 controls/program very SLR-like. No point and shoot is quick enough.

Check out the customer reviews at Amazon.com. And look at the pictures people have uploaded there. Forget the tech talk and RAW for now.

Just had another look at the OP. Waterproof? Beginner? A bit more zoom. Canon D10! As for that insect…those take some effort no matter what camera you are using.

Are you guys sure on that LX3 weight? I weighed mine. Will look it up when I have my computer.

Hartley,
Video is of no concern to me, I don't honestly care if it even has video. I have no idea what a viewfinder is and I suppose I'm willing to screw around with a lens cap (not really sure what that means though).

I don't really care about it being waterproof, it would just be a nice feature. My understanding is that the waterproof cameras do not compare to the image quality of non-waterproof cameras. This is just what I've read dpreview.

It would be great if you can get me an exact weight for the LX3 (including batteries). Thanks.

-Sid

I'm currently trekking in Turkey. Taking some time off the trail :( I have the camera with me but no scale. I vaguely remember it being lighter than some of these posts indicate. But not positive.

View finder allows you to look through the camera. Particularly useful in bright sunlight. LX3 does not come with a viewfinder. You can buy a viewfinder for it but reports are that it's not a satisfactory solution. It does have a grid which is helpful for composition. LX3 does does shoot HD video but reviews have been mixed. I am just getting into video and all I have to compare it to is a Flip. Zoom is pretty limited for its class. Guess you can't have everything.

Want to buy a slightly dented one? Just kidding. The futz factor is the same as my DSLR. The lag is shorter than some point and shoots but still annoying. From now on, for multi-day backpacking, I am reaching for a simpler camera. I like the wide angle on the LX3. dpreviews video says that it has the best iAuto in the business. Which is good since I use it a lot! This trip, I've been reaching for my iPhone way too often since it's SO easy and I have can edit (with Photogene — truly awesome)and Tweet/email. Instant gratification.

LX3 is a nice little camera but not worth the fuss for me. Especially while climbing or scrambling. Or skiing for that matter. It is quite delicate IMO. I want a reasonably robust pocket camera with no lens cap when I am exerting myself. I don't want to be overly distracted by settings or hurting the camera. Then there is the gloves/mittens issue. There are safety implications. For less active pursuits, prefer a DSLR. Not really regretting my purchase but this camera doesn't really fit my style. Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZR1 sounds ideal for me. Wide angle and 8x zoom in a tidy pocket package.

Note: DSLRs are getting lighter by the season.

Also, Sony has some sweet compact offerings if you care for their proprietary memory card (maybe you are a Vaio type?)and what seems to me to be a bit of a premium.

Note: If you are truly not concerned about price, you can do MUCH better than the LX3 for the weight! There are some really SWEET offerings out there.

I am seriously procrastinating! Time to get organized and hit the trail! I'll be tweeting with #lycianway :)

Hi Sid,

From our LX3 review: "255 g/9.0 oz with battery, wrist strap and storage card"

Cheers,

Rick

Thanks Rick.

I think I am going to be trying out the Canon S90. The 6.9 oz weight is very appealing to me and the image quality is just fine for my needs. My buddy works at Best Buy and told me he can get me a huge discount… hopefully he'll deliver.

-Sid

On reason that I switched from the lx3 ro a s90 that I forgot to mention in this thread is that the s90 display is still mostly useful in bright sunlight where the lx3 would be so washed out that I would be shooting nearly blind.

–mark

Thom Hogan just reviewed the LX3, Canon G10, and Nikon P6000 here: http://bythom.com/compactchallenge.htm

The summary: the LX3 was pretty good in raw but had by far the worst internal raw->jpeg processing. The Canon was great overall, the Nikon was horrible mostly by way of really bad UI design.

James is quite right, of course. Here's my interpretation of what he said: look for usability (good viewfinder, access to the controls that you actually need, durability (waterproof if that's what you need), operability with gloves on, packability, etc) first. Technical image quality really is crucial for some shooting situations. For example, if you want to shoot moving targets in the dark, you really do need an f/1.4 lens on at least a Nikon D700 ($2800). But in full sunlight, a Canon S90 will give landscapes that are nearly as good.

The lifespan of a digital camera is maybe 3 years, due to how fast the technology is moving. Buy anything decent and concentrate on learning composition, light, etc. Criticise yourself harshly, get friends to do the same, and in 3 years you'll have a much better idea of what features you need.

For myself, I want to be able to shoot moving targets when there's little light and I _really_ want to use a polarising filter on hikes, so I got a light SLR (Nikon D40, about 25oz with 18-55mm lens). The performance/price ratio is vastly higher than any point-and-shoot, but the performance/weight ratio is a different story!

Check out Ken Rockwell and Thom Hogan. DPreview is useful for specs but their reviews don't touch important things like usability. I believe Flickr or Picasa lets you search images by camera type; go and see for yourself what the limitations of your choices are!

Film? No! Maybe once you become knowledgeable–film can do a few things that digital can't. But you'll learn more with the faster feedback on your experiments that digital allows. And you shouldn't care about the small differences in image quality just yet.

Have fun!

>I don't have S90 experience but it's quickly become a very
>popular camera with some demanding shooters, so I'll give
>Canon their due (I've bailed on their G-series).

I take it you do not like the G10 and G11. Why not?

— Bob

Great camera. Can't speak highly enough about it. Sharp pictures. Good color rendition. Relatively quick performance. User customizable. It does everything I need it to and more. I'm no expert, I just dabble… but I know enough that i'm justifiably happy with my purchase. She's not light. 355 grams (12.5oz) for the camera body alone. Add a battery and memory storage card on top of that. You're looking at about 13.5oz.

I bought an S90 for backpacking and shooting Street. Great camera. The first thing I did was to carefully thread a paracord wrist strap onto it with a glow in the dark end ferrule with a cinching device. Why? I don't trust the Canon strap with the dinky end loop. I spent over a year in China and shot Daily with a Nikon Coolpix 880. I'm careful but I almost dropped the Nikon about 30 times . I repeat-shooting DAILY. I think you should forget about weight for now and get a Nikon 885 and pay about $50 for it. Great Macro ability. Easy to expand into Coolpix lenses on the cheap. Most importantly if you drop it, lose it , etc. you will have little remorse. . Want to try film instead? Pentax UC-1 or 928. The 928 1s fantastic for about 10 bucks on Ebay. All of these offer no remorse if lost , smashed, malfunctioned.

"All of these offer no remorse if lost , smashed, malfunctioned."

Happened to me, but in a different order. First I got smashed, then lost, then I completely malfunctioned. A hangover, yes, but absolutely no remorse…..

The Coolpix with battery weighs the same as your s90. Unless you are dead serious about sub 1 second shots not on a tripod with no flash you are likely to pay a price premium,with no significant options for lenses or filters. The only downside is CF card cost. Higher but much more stable.

James,

I have a question about your Canon S90 that might be useful for others interested in a "prosumer" P&S. I don't have a DSLR and was considering one as a step up from a very old Canon Powershot A95. What appeals to me most about an SLR style camera is the ability to quickly do manual focus. How often do you see yourself using this feature of the S90 and do you feel that it adequatly replicates this feature of a full fleged slr?

Thanks,

I am struggling with the same issues – trying to choose my first digital camera for a long backpacking trip. I used to be a professional photographer. I gave that up years ago and I am just now getting into digital.

If there is one thing I would assume we all have in common is that we shoot landscape. Which is why I am suprised that I see so many people shooting with cameras that only have 28mm eq. lenses such as the S90. A proper landscape shooting lens is 24mm eq and personally I would not shoot landscape with anything else.

Obviously this is a problem becuase very few compacts have 24mm eq. lenses and I believe the dslr's are too heavy for this trip. Currently I am leanding twords the Lumix LX3.
I am super bummed that the Sony Alpha NEX-5 doesnt come out until after I leave for my trip. I believe that would be my ideal camera.

I actually do more landscape photography with a 105mm lens than with my 28mm lens on my digital.

If you want good landscape pictures, it's actually easier to start with a longer lens than with a wider lens.

I also have a feeling that I'll be getting a Nex-5 as well. It will complement my 4×5 perfectly for longer trips, enabling me to have my cake and eat it, too. I'm also thinking about getting a TrekPod to go with the Nex (eventually… and maybe).

Hm. Maybe after I get a Nex I can sell my Nikon toys and switch entirely over to an Alpha setup to share the glass. I really only use the Nikon for portraits and events right now anyway, since it's almost as heavy as my Arca.

Hi Darren,

IMHO the LX3 still heads the compact pack despite being an ancient two years old. Nothing else matches its feature set and lens.

A larger format alternative might be an E-PL1 with the new 9-18 lens. This combo gets us into the ultrawide realm at a very light weight, with the attractive option of an EVF for outdoor use.

Cheers,

Rick

My sweet spot for wide angle landscape is -20-24mm equivalent focal length, 10mm for a 4/3 system at ~f/8. I've found taking a lens just a bit longer, 28mm, no longer make wide angle an easy task. That said, I like a lot of foreground and get almost everything in focus.

I finally conceded that MY perfect camera doesn't yet exist and purchased an LX3. I really like the pics and versatility but a little longer lens would be nice. Overall I am very pleased while I wait for "the one."

I went ahead and purchased the LX3 as well. I am still awaiting its arrival.

What this means, of course, is that a newer model will come out in the next 2 weeks :)

After some deliberation I went for a Fujifilm F200EXR. Lighter, cheaper and smaller than the LX3, 5x zoom from 28mm equiv, and very good low light performance and dynamic range.

It got a good testing on the SW coast path in UK last week and I'm pleased with the results.