Pak-Rifle Review

[Addie Bedford]

Companion forum thread to:

Pak-Rifle Review

[Ed Tyanich]

Ryan,

Great review. Very interesting "Game Getter"

I still think I will stick with my Smith & Wesson Model 317 22 long rifle revolver.

It weighs in at 11.9 ounces (with an empty cylinder) and holds 8 rounds.

With the HiViz sight, I have no problem grouping 6 or 7 out of 8 rounds in 2" off hand. A trekking pole can be used as a stabilizer as well.

Drawback to the Smith is it is over $800 at retail.

I, like you have found by using a Tenkara rod and a .22, many meals can be harvested when in the backcountry.

[Luke Schmidt]

Great review. I wonder if they'll come out with a big game version some day.
By the way Ryan it doesn't look like Chase is wearing ear plugs. Technically a .22 can still damage hearing over time even though its not as loud as others. You want to us ear plugs or muuffs as much as possible.
Happy hunting (and eating)

[Doug Johnson]

Very cool- I really enjoyed this review. Fishing and hunting aren't part of my backpacking experience or skills, but I certainly appreciate and respect these approaches. I've really enjoyed learning about how these activities fit into ultralight backpacking through the Pak-Rifle and Tenkara fishing pole. Thanks for opening my eyes and mind!

[Stephen Barber]

Nice review, Ryan! I'm going to have to look into one of these!

[Josh Leavitt]

Luke has a good point about ear plugs. Personaly I shoot allot of match grade, sub-sonic ammo, for this and other reasons.

[Joe Clement]

Ouch, pretty expensive. But kind of cool.

[Daryl Hawkins]

Ryan

Great review.

I enjoy carrying just a simple sling shot. You never run out of ammo. Keep your eyes open….Saunders Archery is supposed to come out with a Sling Bow sometime next year which they say can be used as a sling shot and for bow fishing.

daryl

[Bill Armstrong]

Great Review! Hiking, fishing and hunting are all part of the great heritage of the Western States. Keep up the good work.

[Ryan Jordan]

Hi All,

I just wanted to give a headsup that this forum will be moderated to eliminate the hunting vs. anti-hunting while backpacking debate.

Please keep this particular discussion on track and related to the review of the Pak-Rifle.

If you would like to engage in a debate on the ethics of hunting while backpacking, I fully support that and just ask that you open a new thread in a more appropriate forum, perhaps in the Philosophy Forum.

If you would like to engage in a debate on guns vs. no-guns as unrelated to backpacking, please do so in Chaff.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Jonathan DeYoung]

I was looking forward to this review after seeing it on Ryans website.

Great read and fascinating little product. Just have to get the wife on board with letting me spend more money on gear!

[Nia Schmald]

Appreciate the review. I would be interested in hearing comparisons to other options like the S&W Ed mentioned. I've also been looking at the North American Arms mini revolvers which are lighter and cheaper. Any experience with those?

Daryl, what's the weight of your sling shot kit? Are there significant differences in terms of accuracy and weight between models? This seems like another good option.

I just plopped the money down for a Tenkara rod, but at least I can fish all year round. 500 bucks for a gun seems high for my first entry into the sport especially when limited to the fall hunting season. So I'm looking for a cheaper option.

I've been looking for a light weight hunting option after walking past numerous tasty looking grouse, turkey along the PCT this summer. And I was hungry enough that eating a squirrel seemed reasonable.

Just like fishing in many of the high mountain streams and lakes there seems to be little pressure on these small game animals. Most hunters don't hike 10s or 100s of miles into the backcountry to hunt squirrel or small birds so it seems like these populations can sustain a small amount of hunting by a few backpackers. The animals also seem very willing to sit a short distance from me so it seems like they would be easy to hit.

I'd also enjoy seeing an article on collecting edible plants.

[Larry Tullis]

Great piece on a new product. I don't currently own a gun but that is one I might someday. I respect others rights tp voice opposition to guns but am big on our birth-right in this country to responsibly own guns. I commend you on keeping this site well rounded in the ultralight realm.

Also, the idea of hunting "only" in a survival situation is silly and probably ineffective if you have no hunting training. Hunting is an outdoor art, as is fly fishing and ultralight packing and requires lots of practice, learning, mentors, proper gear and strategies. Ultralight gear and strategies of any genre is appropriately discussed here if used responsibly in the outdoors.

In keeping with that idea, I'd like to suggest experts on living off the land to contribute more ideas on this site for foraging and preparing, roots, nuts, seeds, leaves, berries, birds, animals, fish etc. that can be found in ultralight backpacking areas.

I had a watercress salad once with smashed wild raspberry dressing that was amazing! I once shot a ptarmigan during an Alaskan packraft trip and it made a great meal on a bed of Rice-A-Roni. I made willow bark tea once to help calm a toothache. I love any and all self-sufficient skills that can add flair, skill and dimension to an otherwise average outing.

I'm all for learning the modern versions of aboriginal skills and gear, not just how to get from A-B as light and quick as possible. Keep up the great work!

[Steven Evans]

I don't own a gun and know very little about them, but I appreciate the design and manufacturing that went into this rifle. But, I have some basic questions, so maybe anyone can answer them.

If this gun has no safety and it doesn't have the trigger protector (not sure what it is called, but the piece of metal that usualy surrounds the trigger so you don't hit it by accident) then I'm guessing that you wouldn't load it and walk around with it? Or I guess you could but you would have to be really careful? Or do you find the target first and then load the gun just before firing?

Only asking because Ryan says he hikes with it in his hand…is it loaded all day?

[Ryan Jordan]

Stephen, I do hike with it loaded, but not cocked. The force required to cock it is very high, so the risk of firing accidentally, say during a fall, is nearly zero.

[Jake Engel]

The lack of a trigger guard *shouldn't* be too much of a concern with this rifle for a few reasons. First, never rely on the safety. Always assume the gun could go off at any time. That's one of the first things I learned about firearms safety. YOU are the safety. In this rifle, you chamber the load manually, so the safety mechanism essentially becomes the cocker. You don't cock until you're ready to fire.

My question is this:

What is the protocol for safely disengaging the cocker without firing? Do you simply break the action back open or is it more of about finessing the bolt carefully back into its resting position while pulling the trigger?

[Josh Leavitt]

The Pak-Rifle does have a safety, just not a conventional trigger safety. The cocking handle and firing pin can be taken out of "battery" position, by rotating the handle into the slot at the top of the reciever. This renders the action completing inoperable, making it safe to carry with a round in the chamber. It should never be carried with a round in the chamber, and the cocking handle in battery position. Trigger guards are just that, trigger guards, not safety devices.

[Josh Leavitt]

Jake

Good question, breaking the action would seem the safest, yet jostling the rifle around to break the action while loaded seems unsafe. So I would say either method works, its a judgement call, and muzzle control is of course very important when doing this.

[Joe Clement]

Wonder if they'll ever make this in 17 HMR?

[Shawn Bennett]

amazing toy, thanks Ryan :)

[Josh Leavitt]

We have chambered test rifles in 17 HMR, and 17 mach 2, neither round works well with the pivot action of the Pak-Rifle. The cases are borderline for the preasures that are generated. This has caused several fire arms manufactures to drop the 17s from thier line ups, and in at least one case, trigger a recall. The preasures are not exactly unsafe, but they can interfere with proper function of firearms origionaly designed to fire 22LR and 22mag. Additionaly both of the before mentioned 17 rimfires are not well suited to small game hunting, if you want eat what you shot any way. There is another 17 rimfire, the 17 aguila, that may become an option in the future.

[Jake Engel]

A 17 might be interesting in this. My Marlin 917 is one of my favorite rifles. I do wonder, however, if something like this would benefit from the longer range and flatter trajectory of the .17 HMR. After all, Ryan seems to feel that he's mostly using it within 25 yards. Sure, the ability to reach out to 150-200 yards is great, but on such a light frame with very little gripping surface is it really going to be possible to steady the gun enough to make the shot accurately in the first place?

[John Young]

The 17HMR Might be overkill for game you want to put in the pot. the 17 MKII would be interesting. I am not a fan of the .22 LR because they tend to ricochet around in the tember. The posabilty of putting a grouse in the pot would be worth carying the extra weight.
John in LV

[Roger Homrich]

Thanks for chiming in, Josh. Great Job! I assumed the 17HMR would be a little too ‘hot’.

Even though you would be able to benefit from the flatter trajectory, I’m not sure it matters under 25 yards with this particular firearm, given its intended use. Both rounds (17HMR/22LR) are more accurate than most shooters while in field conditions.

Also, the velocity and expansion of the 17HMR can be great for, say, a coyote, but is devastating (ruins more edible meat) to a squirrel or rabbit-sized animal… especially if point of impact is in the body.

In practical use, I would assume one would focus on the smallest of game for eating afield in order to not waste meat (hard to eat or preserve larger animals afield) and the 22LR is a round that is suited well for this purpose.

If you were focusing on the larger end of smaller game, the 17HMR would really be much more effective for the above reasons, but you would need a heavier gun.

[Steven Evans]

Ahh yes, you have to cock a gun before you can fire it…forgot about that part :)

Anyway, nice review and great job on the rifle.

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