marmot helium vs. montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger #1 vs. WM alpinlite/ultralite

Here's a link to reviews on the bags you mentioned:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/category_display?cid=36&cat=Sleeping%20Bags%20%2D%20Mummy%20%26%20Other

I believe the general consensus is that WM & Feathered Friends are the better than MB in terms of consistant fill, but lots of people like the comfort of the MB stretch system. Marmot is probably 1 step down from those 3 in terms of price, but has extremely good quality (price is mostly due to heavier, cheaper fabric), and a wider cut.

Quilts may be something to look into too. They have quite a following here.

Thanks for the info…so many good bags out there! I haven't been able to find any info the Montbell bag though, I guess it is a new model? Anyone have the spiral down hugger #1?

I too have been upgrading and lightening. I've recently done excessive research on down bags. The brief conclusion I came to was that you can't go wrong as far as quality and weight with any of these bags: Marmot, WM, Montbell, Feathered Friends. I opted for the Marmot Helium b/c it was available at the REI right down the street (can't beat their service).

I recommend you climb into the bag you are going to buy to make sure it fits you the way you like.

acronym 11/30/2009 12:13 AM

Valandre is another top tier company….
I've used a Valandre Mirage (3/4 Zip Model) for roughly the last 18 months and compared to the WM bags I have/had is at least equal in quality.

I can't comment on the Montbell UL Spiral Down Hugger #1 but I can on the #3, so I hope this provides you some direction. I just got back over the Thanksgiving Day holiday from the Smokys NP (two nights in the back country)and I took the Montbell UL Spiral Down #3 to temps in the high teens very low 20's (Gregory’s Bald area at around 4750'). I was on the border line of just starting to get a little cold but I suspect temps did not last that long. The bag itself (spiral) is very comfortable as I like to move around in the bag. It makes it very easy to shift and twist around in. The #3 is a 30 degree bag so I was definitely pushing its limit, granted, I also complemented the bag with my additional sleep system (MLD Bivy, Icebreaker 150 SS, Icebreaker LS 200 & Montbell UL Therma Wrap, The North face paramount pants). Our shelter was a Tarp (Gossamergear Spin Twinn) so we did not have the benefit of trapping any heat. Overall I’m very satisfied with the quality of craftsmanship as well. So far I’ve used the bag for a total of six nights and I have not noticed any fill coming through the bag. Some areas that were slept on need to be re-lofted (I just fluffed it up a bit and it was fine) but I suspect that will be the case with any down bag. By the way, I’m 5’10” & decided to go with the long size and that was a great decision!

I have used the Marmot Helium for the last three years and think that it is an excellent bag. The one I have has only a half zip which is less than desirable in warm weather. It is also a bit more bag than I need for what I do now. I will likely be buying a WM Summerlite this winter and sleeping in more of my clothes in the future. (19 oz versus my present 30 oz).

See this thread:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=25294&skip_to_post=212862#212862

:)

Adventure 16 has a 10% sale going on until Dec 13th. You get 10% of your entire purchase and they carry Western Mountaineering bags. I tried the Summerlite out in their store with my MB Down Inner parka and pants and it is just a little slim for me though. I think I am going to go with the Moutain Hardware Phantom32 even though it's 4 oz heavier.

Thanks for all the advice. I would love to try the Montbell bag but the closest retailer is 8 hours away, so I guess that isn't going to happen…I'm intrigued by the summerlite. Anyone have experience with this in colder weather? I know its very subjective but to what temperature, with clothing, have you guys used it comfortably?

Hello Peter,

I was just out this weekend in my Summerlite. The lowest temp we saw was 25 degrees F overnight. I was using my Summerlight in a TiGoat bivy and wearing the following:
Integral Designs Hot Socks
Icebreaker 200g Weight Leggings
Marmot Rain Pants
Patagonia Wool 2 Zip Top
MontBell Down Inner Parka
Patagonia R1 Balaclava
Icebreaker Merino Glove Liners

Also, my pad was a short Thermarest RidgeRest CCF pad and my pack under my legs.

I stayed very comfortable all night. I experienced no chills or anything that would prevent me from sleeping soundly. I am very impressed with this bag!
Hope this helps!

Is a great bag. fringe 3 season use. I have one and love love love it but not for winter. The versalite is my next lust item. If you can afford the versalite expect to be thrilled with its comfort and warmth into winter in most places. For all the bags in the first thread keep in mind they can all be too warm for a good part of the year.

adam – thanks, that helps alot. i haven't camped much in weather under freezing as of yet and its hard to shake the 19 ounce weight out of my head…good to hear that you can make it down to 25 too. this one might have to go to the top of my list now. and fortunately they sell them around me!

sean – i keep hearing the same thing from everyone about the summerlite. as for the versalite, how warm is it if you open it up and use it as a blanket? majority of my camping is in 40+ weather but i was thinking of trying to find a bag that could do it all in case of colder weather.

thanks for all the help!

Happy to help, Peter!
Right now I'm working on taking my Summerlite even a touch lower by swapping out my RidgeRest pad for a CCF + Inflatable torso length pad and some additional insulation (down pants and booties). I haven't tried this yet, but I believe you can also "migrate" the down to the top of the baffles to get more insulation on top of you in a Summerlite.
Keep in mind too that my bivy adds a scant amount of warmth as well.
I think if the majority of your camping is going to be 40+ degrees, the Summerlite is a top notch contender. For colder temps, I would suggest testing it out with smaller overnighters to see how low you can go (I started out with a 3 day trip down to 32 degrees, then took it down to 25 last weekend).
I'd also suggest planning these "tester" trips so that you could bail if you got too cold. On one of my tester trips, if I was in a position where my sleep system wasn't cutting it, I'd get myself up, break down and hike out at 2am if I had to. The hiking would warm me up, and I'd have some valuable lessons learned.
IMO, when you push the limits of your gear, you have to rely more on systems than individual pieces of gear. I.E. – My sleep system isn't just the bag I use. It's all the components brought together to keep me warm and comfy.
Just my $0.02.
Best of luck with your decision!

ok so i've thrown out the original 4 i started with, and i'm now trying to decide between the summerlite and the UL spiral hugger 3. my only reservation for the summerlite is the 59" shoulder circumference. my current bag is 62" and its fine, but i often find it difficult to sleep when i have to keep my arms in cause of the cold. they get stuck at my side and its a bit uncomfortable. not sure if the stretch system would help at all with this, but i'm intrigued by it. not really asking for any advice here, just need to figure out what to do. too bad i can't find the MB bags in a store. guess if worst comes to worst i can buy one online and see how it feels when it gets here. thanks again for the advice…
peter

I love the idea of the Summerlite but I could not get the zipper up over my shoulder – it is really tight.

Hey,

I have owned the marmot hydrogen and now the summerlite. I'm a pretty average build 165 lbs, 5'10" and the summerlite fits me, I found the hydrogen HUGE, the tighter fit is more thermal efficient if you fit inside of it. I'm gonna say that I had a summerlite on shasta two weeks ago and it wasn't enough, it started raining and then snowing so it may have dropped below 25 but luckily I also had my wm apache and made it through, as seen by the picture below, you can just see the top of the apache

The ultralite may just be the best bet for what you are proposing, If you want one bag to carry you through the next 4 months and still be light enough for the 8 after that its probably right in the sweet zone. I only say this because being cold sucks probably more than anything else when you are trying to enjoy your time outdoors the summerlite could possibly make it most of the time but the extra 6 oz of down could do wonders, one thing too is maybe a summerlite with 2oz of overfill.

Peter – if you get close enough to deciding to risk shipping money, I'll be happy to send you the spiral 3 to try

I'm not a believer in "one bag for all conditions" since often that means the bag you have is less than desireable in most conditions, in order to work at the extreme edge of cold conditions on rare occasions. I like the WM Megalite as a "compromise" bag. Most of the season is spent above 35 deg. F.

The 30 degree rated WM Megalite is rated 2 degrees warmer than a Summerlite, with a top collar, and is distinctly wider (+5 oz. heavier). Even if the extra width is a hair more than usually needed, that extra space can help if you're in colder temps and so need insulating clothes inside the bag to stay warm. Much of the year, you may unzip the bag to use it as a quilt.

I don't want to make your decision any harder, but backcountrygear.com has the Marmot Helium on sale for $295…

I bought a summerlite a few months ago and have been testing out my lower temp. limits with this bag. I am not what I would call a cold sleeper and from the reviews I read I figured I would be very toasty down to the low 30’s with light clothing. My experience has been not been that ideal though. My first outing in low 30s I was wearing light nylon pants (no long underwear), microweight merino wool top, marmot driclime windshirt and rain shell, nylon hat, polypro gloves and light smartwool socks. This was in a tarp tent on a ¾ length thermarest inflatable. I was COLD, could sleep but had dreams all night of shivering and not being quite able to warm up. The next night was a bit warmer, perhaps upper 30s and that setup worked fine.
Second trip was this past week in Joshua Tree park where temps hit the mid to low 30s. I ditched the driclime and wore a montbell ul down inner jacket plus added some long underwear. I was pretty toasty in that set up but wouldn’t want to take it lower than 30.
My original expectation was that with the second clothing set up I used I should be able to push 25 degrees but after my experiences I would not sleep very well below 30. If you are generally sleeping in 40+ temps. then the summerlite will be fabulous but I found that around freezing is starting to push what this bag can handle.
FYI I am 5’11 and 160 lbs, I find the bag roomy enough to wear the above mentioned clothing without feeling too constricted. Hope that helps and good luck with your search.

i think what i really need to decide is what i want it for. henry, i hear you that one bag can't do it all but i guess what i'm looking for at this point, still being relatively new to the outdoors, is a bag that will do most of what i want. summerlite and spiral hugger #3 both look great, i am just very slightly concerned about the temp ratings. with the helium on sale now too, who knows? i'll let you know what i decide, thanks again for all the suggestions!