Your Opinion Who Makes the best UL quilt?

For the money, I’d say that the standard Ray-way synthetic quilts are far superior to any other option out there. They are heavier, bulkier, and less precise in comparison to other quilts on the market, but are well suited to 3 season backpacking with an accurate 40 degree temperature rating. For $65 and 8 hours of your time, they seem like a great investment.
I just finished sewing mine, and it weighs in at 22.1 oz. It fits nicely, without a stuff sack, into a SMD Essence pack with a fair amount of space to spare – gotta love panel loaders!

-Dave:)

If you want down, I think I’d go with Nunatak. If you want synthetic, check out Fanatic Fringe. If you are able to sew you might try the Ray-Way quilt.

I have the Fanatic Fringe Polarguard 3D. FF claims it is 1lb 8.5 oz…I haven’t weighed it myself. Using a Ray-Way bomber hat and fleece balaclava, along with typical summer hiking clothes, I’ve been comfortable below 32 degrees. The FF quilt with Delta insulation is a bit lighter, but should perform the same.

do you generally find you can sleep comfortably to around mftr. comfort ratings, or can you go colder comfortably?

Cary,
For this you’d be better off posting your clothing list w/ specifics about the conditions. My ability to sleep warm night after night is variable enough, let alone trying to extrapolate for someone else. If you take advice now, you’ll likely have a surprise in store later on (pleasant or unpleasant depending).

I’ll also look forward to Dane’s comments however. Didn’t know about the FF model at all.

Robert,
Even for the $ I think Nunataks are a good value, versatility considered. My problem was beating around the bush for a few years, buying other bags which were each good but specialists, hoping to compile a good set of choices instead. Then I broke down and got the Arc Alp anyway… Those other bags still come in handy for sure, but a well chosen Nunatak can cover an awful lot of bases. However, all this only applies if down is suitable for your needs.

I have a mountainsmith wisp bag

supposed to be a 30 degree bag

last weekend I had on wool socks, microfleece pants, silkweight t, microfleece shirt, cocoon jacket, lightweight polarfleece balaclava, wool glove liners

I was in a high pitched tarp with full-length (I’m 3/4 length, so it’s a full length pad for me) gossamergear nightlight pad

I slept fine and didn’t feel cold, but I didn’t feel I was as warm as I’d like to be either – when I did wake up I could feel some coolness underneath me and whatever was touching top of bag – ie left arm if sleepin on my right side – felt a bit cool

it was 33 degrees & light breeze

I’ll assume clothing is dry and that the bag fits you efficiently–tho these are two real biggies. Given those, yes that seems a little on the cool side, esp w/ your clothing, but its not necessarily glaring depending on your metabolism.

Some thoughts:
I have no experience w/the wisp, but Ive heard about some quality-control issues. Severe underfill in certain chambers, cold spots etc. Luck of the draw. It seems to me that side sleepers might experience cold spots more in general, unless they let the bag turn sideways with them. Carol Crooker reviewed the wisp and seemed to have liked it. If you haven’t read this, you may find it helpful.

The Wisp is spec’d at 1lb 5oz, w/ about 11 oz fill — this is in the ballbark of a Nunatak Arc Alp w/ overfill. I’m confident that even with no more on your head than what you’ve stated, you’d probably find an similar arc bag warmer. Even moreso w/ a Ghost (8 oz fill) + Down Balaclava (3) equaling same weight. Assuming the ghost isn’t too narrow. How much warmer depends on all of the above variables. Drafts are another issue w/ an arc bag – a bivy will help a lot when under an open tarp (slightly moreso than w/ a trad bag, conditions depending). Even w/ no wind, moving around alot can pump air out the bottom. Just figure the potential bivy benefits (which in fairness do go beyond drafts) against the weight. Or consider a top bag with the bottom sewn shut, like Gossamer Gear’s Sleeplight (Nunatak). Of course a Polartec 200 balaclava would add warmth (weight too) but w/out the pricetag. (Not wanting to turn you off of a bag you otherwise like…)

You do seem to be describing cold spots more than drafts, but food for thought. Best of luck Cary.

I bought a quilt from …

http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Products%20List.htm

“do you generally find you can sleep comfortably to around mftr. comfort ratings, or can you go colder comfortably?”

Cary – I get a bit cold at night easily. I usually cannot go colder than the bag’s rating comfortably.

The night that it was below freezing I was in my BMW bivy and under a tarp pitched all the way to the ground on the windward side. I had a standard 3/8 inch blue foam pad under me. My warmest peices of clothing were the Ray-Way bomber hat and a Patagonia micro-puff vest.

I wouldn’t expect the same amount of comfort every night under 32 degrees though. I’ve even been chilly in my FF quilt above 32 degrees. Maybe the difference was in the ground temperature rather than the air temperature. My clothing setup was also different that night.

It gets harder to garauntee a comfortable level of warmth when you use a quilt or bag down to within 5, sometimes even 10 degrees of it’s rating (assuming it’s accurately rated), so just in case I’m feeling cold I bring along one or two EZ Heat reusable handwarmers.

Waking up at five in the morning with cold feet and activating one of those hand warmers is bliss :)

I’ve got to hand it to you quilt-users out there, I admire you. I thought about going the quilt route last year, and tried my mummy bags in pseudo-quilt mode inside of my bivy. In warmer temps, it made cooling off easier, but in in colder weather, even though I don’t move much at all when I sleep, and was inside a bivy, any movement (even respiratory movements, perhaps???) pumped out some warm air (out with the warm; in with the cold). This made me feel very cold within a few hours. Normally, in colder temps, I try to seal the bag up with only my nose partly exposed, but still pretty much surrounded by some of the bag – even if I’m wearing a “Gorilla”-style ‘clava in very cold weather. Maybe the quilt-mode use of the bag being less restictive than a tighter mummy-bag model contributed to some movement? I don’t know. Obviously, my bag was not sealed to the pad as well as you could with a nice quilt. For me, in cold weather, the key is minimizing air exchange – i.e., don’t want to warm the same volume of air more than once. Any advice or comments?

Paul,
Sounds as if you were experimenting with a problematic rig. To work well in real cold, a quilt has to stay in place, tucked under the sleeping pad. from 1 to 3 elastic stays (I use one)will do that. The top of the bag needs to enclose the shoulders and exclude drafts. I’m trying to imagine making an off-center mummy hood work right. No wonder you got cold. As with all gear that works close to the edge – including mummy bags – quilts take some practice and have to be set up right to begin with.

The big difference between a quilt and a mummy is you wear the mummy and it moves around with you. If you turn on your side, it goes, too. You turn *under* the quilt, not *with* it. As you observed, this inevitably creates more air space and, naturally, draws in cold outside air. However, if you don’t move much when you sleep this problem tends to go away.

The issue of breathing into the mummy or the quilt is pretty important since it can reduce the efficiency of all insulation. I have less trouble with that when using a balaclava with a nose cover. Without it, the sleepy animal likes to tuck its nose somewhere warm and will do so if I don’t wake up.

Vick, Thanks for the info. Perhaps I’ll revisit the quilt matter, perhaps with an inexpensive FF quilt. If it doesn’t work out, I’m sure I can give someone on these Forums a great steal…er…I mean deal on a slightly used FF quilt. Guess I would need to add the straps to the FF quilt though to make it work right.

I’d agree that those who toss and turn probably sleep colder in any bag. also, it depends so much on the clothing integrated w/ bag use. For those fastpackers who minimize clothing and use a loftier bag, I would think that arc bags are less suited, b/c of that air exchange. In really cold temps, a more even balance between ‘at rest’ clothing and bag fill mitigates that effect well enough for me.

I’m with Vick, I also have a hard time picturing how you’d use a trad bag to effectively simulate a good arc bag Paul. Tho I disagree that you ‘have to’ strap the pad inside the bag. This depends more on what achieves the best fit. I personally could never get an efficient fit w/ a quilt that way. I strap bag under me, above pad, but also I’m comfortable turning over w/out too much sideways leg motion or kicking.

This is also one reason why I don’t buy the argument that arc bags promote a more restful sleep by enabling more motion. Maybe when well above the temp rating, sure. But in either kind of bag, excessive air exchange should be avoided to get the most out of it. More restful sleep may not be possible if the learning curve doesn’t work out for that individual. At any rate, the MYOG article about making an arc bag out of a trad will be very interesting, and a good way to experiment. TNF’s Propel, a zipperless Pg delta / Pertex Quantum bag, seems like a great candidate.