Quilt vrs. Bag

It's all good, Mike :)

So, you've got one of those "hooded down quilt"s? I'm guessing you mean down balaclava? Or hooded down jacket? Do you really only carry one quilt for temps ranging 60*F to 0*F? Or are the temps there pretty much just always, say, 40F range?

Cheers-

Edited the post Brad. :)

I actually don't have any central heating in my house. Through choice though.

I use a Montbell UL Thermal Sheet opened up as a quilt on warm nights above 50F.
I use my Arc Specialist the rest of the year. The coldest temps i expect in winter are around -10C or so. I can handle that comfortably using my hooded Skaha. The record low in Scotland is -29C, but that sort of low temp is very unusual. I would feel kinda chilly on a night like that! :)

Interesting stuff, Mike, thanks!

Brad I'm not sure where those numbers are coming from… If you look at both options sized for someone 6' tall the Nunatak is 4 ounces lighter.

* Nunatak Specialist in medium +2" is reported by the manufacturer to be 15oz in 1.0 quantum

* WM Summerlite is reported by the manufacturer to be 19oz but looking at reviews a lot of people say they're actually 20+oz.

To be fair, of heard of Nunatak's occasionally being overweight as well.

Don't know, John… the Specialist page shows that the medium Quantum is 16oz, not sure if that's the 1.0 Q or the 0.8Q. My Summerlite was dead-on for weight, as I've heard many others report. So there's a 3-oz difference between the two, um, "sleeping things" based on their stats. I think Nunatak makes great stuff, please don't misunderstand… I referenced their things because I correlate their quality with WM quality.

Ooops, my numbers are 0.8 quantum the numbers listed on the Nunatak site (aka your numbers) are 1.0 quantum.

The WM summerlight uses a 0.9 weight shell material.

Another thing to consider is the Specialist +2" uses about 8.5 ounces of down while the WM Summerlite uses 9 ounces. However, how much of the 9 ounces is crushed under your body weight and nearly useless for insulating value?

No worries, I didn't take your comments as a WM vs. Nunatak debate. I don't even own a Nunatak yet!

I love WM too. In fact, my zero degree bag is WM and it's a work of art.

I'm just pretty sure I can't get any lighter than a good quilt for 3 season stuff considering how I've configured the rest of my system. (Meaning, stuff I would be carrying whether or not I used a quilt or a bag.)

I'm glad to hear that others are validating my experience that if you are a tosser/turner and like to sleep on your sides or stomach that you'll be happy with a quilt. I've always read the opposite. I'm a tosser/turner and sleep on my sides and stomach and I was pleasantly surprised when it all worked so much better for me with a quilt.

I have a golite ultra 20 and couldn't be happier. It packs small, weighs little and keeps me really really warm. I wear a homemade lightweight balaclava on my head if I'm cold, or else I pull it up over my head.

Wasted down! That should be a crime. WM Extremelite bags , just like a Nunatak or other quilts, have no side baffles. so tyou can shake as much of the down to the top of the bag as you desire making them almost like a top-bag.

Sleeping at home is not something I can compare to on the trail. My bedroom never gets below freezing, and I have a king sized duvet all to myself. If I could find a quilt with 2 inches of loft in a king size that only weighed 15oz, I would use it everywhere I went. I don't think comparing weights and efficiency between a SummerLite and a Specialist is a fair comparison, as the SummerLite is 3 inches wider which makes all the difference for me. I have found 59-60 inch to be the minimum comfortable width for me in a single quilt. Maybe, just Maybe if I had got a custom Nunatak with a few extra inches, I would have been a lot happier with my quilt, but then again it would have weighed more…and I still would have had to carry extra headwear and bivy bag. So I guess I'm just not born to quilt use outside of a king size at home where it never gets too cold or windy :(

60 inch width quilt? You must have really, really broad shoulders Lynn.

"You must have really, really broad shoulders Lynn."

Actually I do, especially after I add a base layer, fleece top and down jacket. and still want enough fabric to tuck under me and not come untucked every time I move.

My quilt at home is 104 inches wide and probably a little excessive! The top bag I use when I leav home is 62 inches, but only 42 of that is down filled, the other 20 is just a single layer of fabric o keep the bag well and truly tucked under me.

I see. That's where straps come in handy. I use a 48" wide quilt and if I cinch the straps down I only have about a 4" wide section of my backside exposed. I roll inside this so I never have to worry about anything coming untucked or anything being exposed to drafts.

My Nunatak had straps, but I found they didn't work when the wind blew really hard, and I also found them an absolute @#$%^&*( to get in and out of the quilt when attached. I find it easier to just half unzip my bag and roll out. Besides, I like having an integral hood, as where my balaclava met quilt was another area I had problems with drafts. Quilts are not the perfect solution for everyone, and that from someone who was very motivated to make a quilt work. After all, it cost me a lot of dosh, especially when adding in the cost of the balaclava and bivy bag.

Are the Nunatak straps permanently attached? I don't clip my straps together until I'm bedding down for the night and already tucked in. Curious more than anything.

I had Tom put detachable straps on my quilt(s). Female clips on the sides, and male fittings on the adjustable interior section. I don't use straps at all when hammocking and only occasionally when ground dwelling… so often they're left at home.

"Are the Nunatak straps permanently attached? I don't clip my straps together until I'm bedding down for the night and already tucked in. Curious more than anything."

Not sure if I'm reading the question correctly, but the Nunatak straps (I'm assuming they're the same on all standard quilts Tom makes) are 'open-able.' The strap ends 'clip' together when you want to cinch them around you, or unclip if you don't want to have the straps around you.

Does that help?

Yeah. Same as what I have. Not sure why it's difficult for someone to "slide" in if they can just unclip.

Yes, the Nunatak straps are detachable, it's just a lot more fiddly for me to find a couple of very small joiners to open (they are flat and I struggle to to open them with one hand) while lying on top of the straps. Even harder to re-do them in the dark. I get up several times each night, so it's really starting to bug me by about the second night!

OK, this might be a stupid question, but why is it that some say that the down on the bottom of a sleeping bag is wasted? Two weeks ago I hiked into the North Cascades at about 5600 ft. I camped in about 2-3 feet of snow and slept nicely in my WM bag. There was a small area on the bottom/side of the bag where the down had moved to leave an empty spot (probably caused by my recent washing). I felt some very cold air through this spot and had to correct it so that I was not cold. In this situation I could not imagine sleeping with a quilt. Granted I'm just speculating because I've never tried one, but my tent was on the snow, the snow was blowing all night long and was pretty cold. I tend to be a cold sleeper and really value a comfortable, warm night's sleep. How would a quilt work in these types of scenarios?

When down is compressed, as it would be when underneath a body, it provides negligible insulation value. A proper pad is the most important thing between you and the ground.

Gaps at the edges of a quilt or bag will leave cold spots, but it shouldn't be a problem where you are lying ON your mat, so maybe you had one of these side gaps? This was a problem with first generation "top bags" where they didn't allow for overlap of the down with the mat edges.

"my tent was on the snow, the snow was blowing all night long and was pretty cold….How would a quilt work in these types of scenarios?"

Depends on how well protected you tent is from wind. A fully double skinned winter tent should be fine. A single wall mesh perimetre would be pretty miserable in a quilt without a bivy IMHO. Horses for courses!

I never liked the draft given off my quilts especially since I toss and turn a lot at night and hate that feeling of cold air coming thru the sides. I do understand some people hating the "hood on the way" part when you use a sleeping bag a as quilt on warmer nights but i just bury my hood INTO the sleeping bag and solve all problems.